I want to let those of you who read my blog know that I am not going to approve any comments which target or attack the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival or its attendees or workers. Those of us who were born female, with female physiology, and who have lived all of our lives as girls and women share certain lived experiences, including difficult and traumatic experiences of subjugation and subordination. We have every right — in fact we owe it to ourselves — to make time in our lives to gather as an affinity group for healing, encouragement, comfort, and strategizing our own liberation. There is nothing “phobic,” or fearful or bigoted or hateful about this. We need this time. We need this space. Our creating it is about what we must have to be whole and healthy. The attacks on Michfest are, I believe, one consequence of decades of anti-feminist, anti-woman backlash, and, in particular, are the result of decades of misrepresentation of, and attacks on, the work, theories, ideas and activism of radical feminist leaders, many of whom were central to movements and work which resulted in tremendous, positive change for all women. There is nothing “essentialist” or essentializing about defense of woman-born-woman (a term I do not ordinarily use, but use it now for clarity) space. To the contrary, in general, those who oppose woman-only space usually simultaneously, themselves, essentialize notions of “male” and “female”, “masculine” and “feminine,” “man and woman,” and often organize their lives around their own essentialisms, (even though they often claim to be opposed to essentialism, to gender binaries).
One (though not the main or only) reason I am not approving comments attacking Fest is that every one I’ve read so far has been, by and large, empty rhetoric evidencing pretty much a knee-jerk response to the very notion of woman-only space. I have not so far read any comments opposed to woman-only space which evidence that the writer has read or thought deeply about the issues from the perspective of feminism. In general, the comments evidence a loyalty to a party line which I believe to be at odds with the liberation of women.
I may approve comments which do evidence that the writer has done his or her homework, but I cannot give myself, my time and energy to comments which don’t evidence that the writer has given the issues careful thought. It’s the easiest thing in the world, remember, to vilify those of us born women. You will get plenty of support in doing that. I do not want to participate in that or make space on my blog for it and will not.
Heart
Good for you, and you’re perfectly right.
Welcome back Heart. I’ve missed you. You’ve made me wish I could attend this event. Maybe next year.
Great post, Heart. I agree with you completely.
I appologise for the tone of my last comment. If I may, I’d like to try to explain my point of view, as a woman and a feminist.
I fully support woman only space. There is nothing inherently bigotted or inherently discriminatory about woman only space.
I do believe that those of us (myself included) who are “born women” need to be careful not to *define* that as the only possible experience of womanhood. It is not clear to me that the difficulties and obstacles that women face are exclusive to women-born-women. Transwomen also face misogyny. Moreover, if a transwoman seeks out woman only space, it seems reasonable to assume that she is doing so as a response to misogyny — that is, a transwoman seeking out woman only space could be seen as a *feminist* response to society.
As a feminist, I also feel quite firmly that anatomy doesn’t dictate role, including transwomen.
As women born women, we have some degree of privilege in that we are *more* accepted and included by society as a whole than transwomen are. I feel that it is unfair to claim “safe space” as necessary for women-born-women, but to deny it to transwomen who need safe space just as much, if not more so, than WBW like you and me.
I have no intention of villifying WBW (i am one!), or of villifying feminism. But I do feel that feminism should include, rather than exclude, transwomen.
–IP
IP– I think that the experience of being born a girl (the doctor looks and says, “it’s a girl,” leaving aside, for now, issues around those who are intersex), being raised knowing you are female, and living all of your life as a girl, then woman, is a specific experience which only those born female share. I agree with you that transwomen face misogyny, but I don’t think that changes anything. I think that gender nonconforming men (whether their nonconformity is or is not intentional) also face misogyny, you know? Which does not make their lived experiences comparable with women’s.
I think some transwomen have and do seek out woman-only space as a response to misogyny; however, again, nonconforming men could also seek out woman-only space as a response. I don’t think there’s any reason to view this as a feminist response to misogyny (though it might be). I think it might just be a response. Misogyny hurts. It’s good to get away from it. It hurts whether you’re a man or boy, or a woman or a girl. You don’t have to be a feminist to want to get away from what hurts.
My personal experience is, some transwomen do seek out woman-only space because they are feminists and want the company of women. Others seek out woman-only space to disrupt it and cause difficulty for women-born-women, for political reasons, for their own personal reasons.
I don’t think anatomy dictates role. I do think that under heteropatriarchy, we are treated and mistreated in certain specific ways by the surrounding culture based on the anatomy we are born with, which results in a certain lived experience which we share.
I don’t think it can be said that women (born women) enjoy privilege because we are more accepted and included by society than transwomen are. I think many transwomen are as accepted and included as many, many women (born women) are (particularly in the case of transwomen who are white, young, not differently-abled, not mothers).
I would not deny transwomen safe space. I call upon them to, as women (born women) have, make their own safe spaces, with the help of women (born women) who are like-minded with them politically, if they want to. I don’t think that as women born women, it’s up to us to take care of the whole entire world all of the time (even though that’s the role assigned to us at birth based on the fact of our physiology). I think it is crucial, central and essential to our liberation as women, in fact, to refuse that role and to create spaces for our own healing and political strategizing.
As to feminism including, rather than excluding, transwomen– well, I don’t think it works to describe feminism quite that way? It’s a grassroots movement. There’s no central cabal charged with including or excluding anyone. I think whether or not someone is a feminist, bottom line, depends on what she believes about the subordination of women to men, whether she wants that subordination to end. By this definition, I think some transwomen are feminists and some aren’t, just like some women are feminists and some aren’t. Having said that, woman-only space is not always feminist space. Not all of the women at Michfest are feminists. I think it’s valid and appropriate for women to gather in woman (born woman) only space, for the reasons I’ve mentioned and for other reasons, whether they are feminists or not.
Thanks for your thoughtful post, IP.
Heart
Oh, and thanks for the welcome back, Pony, and the encouragement Prof. Zero and Laurelin.
Heart
Thanks for your response, Heart.
“being raised knowing you are female, and living all of your life as a girl, then woman, is a specific experience which only those born female share.”
I think this is only the case because the words “all your life” are there. Transwomen who live as women *do* experience what girls/women experience.
“It’s good to get away from it. It hurts whether you’re a man or boy, or a woman or a girl. You don’t have to be a feminist to want to get away from what hurts.”
Well, you do have to be anti-misogynist. Which is, after all, part of the point of the exercise, no?
“My personal experience is, some transwomen do seek out woman-only space because they are feminists and want the company of women. Others seek out woman-only space to disrupt it and cause difficulty for women-born-women, for political reasons, for their own personal reasons.”
I don’t think this is contingent on sex at birth. That is, some WBW seek out woman only space as feminist space. Other WBW seek woman only space to protest feminism (eg, women’s anti-abortion groups). Yet WBW would be welcome at MichFest without being asked about their politics. Whereas transwomen, by default, would not be welcome because *some* transwomen are not feminists. Which seems a strange discrepancy.
“I don’t think it can be said that women (born women) enjoy privilege because we are more accepted and included by society than transwomen are. I think many transwomen are as accepted and included as many, many women (born women) are (particularly in the case of transwomen who are white, young, not differently-abled, not mothers).”
Transwomen are a minority of women. They face prejudice from women and men. They face, for the most part, far more prejudice that WBW do. Yes, there are degrees of privilege that are contingent on factors other than birth sex, but that’s the case for WBW anyway. But in general, a transwoman faces more prejudice and therefore is less privileged than a WBW who is in the same socioeconomic position. I don’t think it’s fair to compare a white able-bodied transwoman to a black disabled WBW in the context of MichFest for the simple reason that a black disabled WBW is welcome at MichFest, whereas a transwoman is not. (Granted that all of this this is contingent on people *knowing* that they’re trans. Otherwise they just get treated as women.)
“I would not deny transwomen safe space. I call upon them to, as women (born women) have, make their own safe spaces, with the help of women (born women) who are like-minded with them politically, if they want to.”
I’m not suggesting that WBW are responsible for “taking care” of the entire world, but I do think that it’s inconsistent to welcome some women but not others into a space declared to be a safe space for women. I feel the division of birth sex is arbitrary. People living as women, being treated as women, are experiencing the things that make women’s safe space important. That being the case, why is it appropriate to exclude transwomen from woman only space?
–IP
I think this is only the case because the words “all your life” are there. Transwomen who live as women *do* experience what girls/women experience.
I think that the words “all your life” are tremendously important and should not be minimized. How a child is socialized from birth until 15, 18, 30, 40, up to the ’60s (I’ve read of people transitioning in their 60s) matters. If you have been raised knowing you are female, and therefore part of a subordinated class under male heterosupremacy, that is a very different experience from being raised knowing you are male and therefore part of the subordinating class under male heterosupremacy. Growing up inside of a physiologically female body is not the same experience as growing up inside of a physiologically male body, not only because of biology, but because of the meaning bodies have under patriarchy. These biological and sociological differences are central. They are critical. Someone who lives in a male body for 20, 30 years, or always, does not have the same lived experience as someone who has lived in a female body.
Me, Heart: “It’s good to get away from it. It hurts whether you’re a man or boy, or a woman or a girl. You don’t have to be a feminist to want to get away from what hurts.”
IR: Well, you do have to be anti-misogynist. Which is, after all, part of the point of the exercise, no?
I don’t think so. I think you can really hate being hurt by misogyny while at the same time continuing to *be* a misogynist. Some of the worst misogynists are, in fact, in my experience, men who have been really hurt by misogyny. Hatred of gay men is, in fact, a form of misogyny; lots of gay men are absolutely rank woman-haters, nevertheless. There are plenty, plenty of transwomen who, in fact, are misogynists. I have met them and known them, both in real life and online. They do not belong at Fest; nevertheless, they are often those who most want to attend.
Me, Heart: “My personal experience is, some transwomen do seek out woman-only space because they are feminists and want the company of women. Others seek out woman-only space to disrupt it and cause difficulty for women-born-women, for political reasons, for their own personal reasons.”
IP: I don’t think this is contingent on sex at birth. That is, some WBW seek out woman only space as feminist space. Other WBW seek woman only space to protest feminism (eg, women’s anti-abortion groups). Yet WBW would be welcome at MichFest without being asked about their politics. Whereas transwomen, by default, would not be welcome because *some* transwomen are not feminists. Which seems a strange discrepancy.
I have never know any woman (born woman) to seek out woman only space to protest feminism. Anti-abortion groups are dominated by men, far and away most of the time. Men always control whatever goes on in the Religious Right, even women’s groups.
Transwomen not being welcome at Fest has nothing to do with whether or not they are feminists. Women are not welcome at Fest because they are feminist either. While most Festies are some kind of feminist, feminism is irrelevant to Fest attendance. What Michfest expects and asks is that Fest be respected as sanctuary for those of us born female, who have grown up and lived all of our lives as girls and women. That is the only requirement for attendance.
The part of my response you quoted there was in response to your statement that transwomen who wanted to go to Fest were likely feminists or anti-misogynist. That’s not my experience.
IP: But in general, a transwoman faces more prejudice and therefore is less privileged than a WBW who is in the same socioeconomic position.
I disagree with you here. I think that all sorts of things figure in here– age, looks, weight, ability to pass or not (and not only if you are a transwoman; many woman (born women) do not pass as women, something that always is made to be invisible, erased in these discussions), being lesbian or het, being a mother or not, race, disability, ethnicity, etc.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare a white able-bodied transwoman to a black disabled WBW in the context of MichFest for the simple reason that a black disabled WBW is welcome at MichFest, whereas a transwoman is not. (Granted that all of this this is contingent on people *knowing* that they’re trans. Otherwise they just get treated as women.)
Except that I think you’re dismissing here what is salient and central: those of us born female, who have lived all of our lives as girls and women, for whom this is our identity, are the people group for whom Michfest is designed. If men attended Michfest, they could also complain they were a minority and were being discriminated against.
Well, yes. Sometimes, it’s appropriate to discriminate. Republicans discriminate, in their caucuses, against Democrats. Ethnic groups discriminate, in their meetings, against other ethnicities. I discriminate, when I have family gatherings, against those outside my family. Discrimination associated with racism, classism, sexism, ableism, etc. is a very bad thing. Discrimination in the context of oppressed minorities is necessary at times. Republicans crashing Democratic caucuses, nonmembers of ethnic groups crashing meetings of specific ethnic groups, nonfamily members crashing my family gatherings uninvited, should not expect to receive a warm welcome and should not deduce that they are persecuted and oppressed minorities when they don’t.
I’m not suggesting that WBW are responsible for “taking care” of the entire world, but I do think that it’s inconsistent to welcome some women but not others into a space declared to be a safe space for women. I feel the division of birth sex is arbitrary. People living as women, being treated as women, are experiencing the things that make women’s safe space important. That being the case, why is it appropriate to exclude transwomen from woman only space?
Because, again, lived experiences of women born female, who have lived all of our lives as girls and women and who identify as women make for a specific lived experience which others who identify as women have not shared. We are not excluding transwomen from women only space. It’s not about transwomen. Just as my family-only space is not about those outside my family, it’s about my family, just as Democratic space is not about Republicans, it’s about Democrats. In progressive circles we have a long history of honoring the need for oppressed, subordinated people to gather together in affinity groups. Women (born women) are such a group. Our need for our own space must continue to be honored.
Heart
One more thought –
IP: But in general, a transwoman faces more prejudice and therefore is less privileged than a WBW who is in the same socioeconomic position.
Me, Heart: I disagree with you here. I think that all sorts of things figure in here– age, looks, weight, ability to pass or not (and not only if you are a transwoman; many woman (born women) do not pass as women, something that always is made to be invisible, erased in these discussions), being lesbian or het, being a mother or not, race, disability, ethnicity, etc.
Something to think about. Women (born women) who do not pass as women and never have (and there are many, many of these women at Michfest) are not likely to attain any socioeconomic status to speak of, (other than a very low one) because of the way gender nonconforming women (born women), particularly out lesbians, are treated in the world. The same cannot be said for transwomen. If they lived as men for any number of years of their adult life and were able to afford transitioning, they likely are middle class. I know very few nonconforming lesbians, women (born women) who are middle class. They are almost always working class to poor, often desperately so. And that, again, is all about sexism: women who do not conform are mistreated in this world. They do not suddenly morph into oppressors and persecutors of transwomen, with privilege over them, by virtue of the fact that transwomen are transwomen and show up at Fest. In fact, their lives are made more difficult by the presence of transwomen, *especially at the Festival* because of the effect the presence of those violating the policy has on women born women attending.
Where a transwoman and a nonconforming woman born woman are both poor, all the other stuff figures in: race, looks, fat or thin, disabled or not, and so on. A poor transwoman who has found a way to get to China or Mexico and paid $1,600 for SRS who passes well as a woman is going to enjoy privilege over an old, disabled or nonconforming lesbian (and there are many of this demographic, again, at Fest.)
It’s not going to work to let the term ”nontrans” privilege slide off of the tongue so easily or glibly, because in truth, transwomen often *do* enjoy considerable privilege over women born women.
Heart
***in truth, transwomen often *do* enjoy considerable privilege over women born women.***
And, as boys, they get more attention from teachers in classrooms, more remedial programs for academic problems more commonly experienced by boys than by girls (there’s plenty of remedial reading, but I never heard of remedial math), more encouragement to go into high paying and challenging occupations, such as in science, math and engineering occupations, and more mentoring to achieve such successes, much of which happens *before* they ever transition.
“As women born women, we have some degree of privilege in that we are *more* accepted and included by society as a whole than transwomen are. I feel that it is unfair to claim “safe space” as necessary for women-born-women, but to deny it to transwomen who need safe space just as much, if not more so, than WBW like you and me.”
So do you think that if transwomen in Iran wanted to start their own safe space festivals and exclude lesbians on the basis that lesbians cannot understand their experiences, it’d be equally wrong? After all, transgendered people are far more accepted in Iran than homosexual people – the penalty for homosexuality is whipping for the first three offenses and can be death on the fourth, whereas SRS is a-okay and even recommended for queer folk so they can be “normal.”
What if gay men wanted to have their own safe space and exclude lesbians? Would that be wrong? If so, if not, why? Is this purely about the power differentials?
Or is it about understanding? Because I’ve known some men, straight and gay, who were the victims of misogyny throughout their childhood because people though they were too feminine. If you’re called a sissy-boy, beaten up for being unathletic, sexually assaulted by other boys, and told you’re worthless because you have girly interests or talents, it’s likely you have a rough understanding of how society treats girls. Why shouldn’t men who’ve had those particular experience or done a lot of reading about the experiences of girlhood and womanhood be allowed into Michfest? They’ve had horrible experiences in their life because of misogyny, they have some comprehension of how women are treated in a sexist society, and they’d likely be respectful.
I don’t question the need for safe space for transgendered people, because that’s obviously very, very important. I just question why they need Michfest to be that safe space so very badly.
“I think that the words “all your life” are tremendously important and should not be minimized. How a child is socialized from birth until 15, 18, 30, 40, up to the ’60s (I’ve read of people transitioning in their 60s) matters.”
In that case, that’s going to be a fundamental point of disagreement, I think.
You’ve talked about women who don’t get read as women but who are welcome at the fest. Such women may not be socialised the way cisgendered women are after childhood. But they are welcome at Michfest, and rightly so. So why this discrepancy with transwomen?
“I disagree with you here. I think that all sorts of things figure in here– age, looks, weight”
For clarificaiton purposes, I’m including all these things in my use of “socioeconomic status”.
“for whom this is our identity,”
For transwomen who identify as women, this is still their identity. Not to acknowledge that denies the identifications, and the agency, of a transwoman. It is objectifying. And it seems like you’re ultimately defininf “woman” and the experience of womanhood in (birth) anatomical terms — that is, in terms of *your* experience of womanhood. Every woman has slightly different experiences — why draw the line at birth sex?
“transwomen often *do* enjoy considerable privilege over women born women.”
Some transwomen will have privilege over some WBW, yes. But in general? I don’t buy your claim because *most* transwomen, will have less privilege than a WBW in the same social/economic circumstances.
As regards “x-only” space and discriminiation, it seems to me that “x-only” space is a positive thing when it does not uphold oppressive social structures. As I see it, because transwomen are frequently excluded and discriminated against by cis people, excluding them from Mich upholds a social structure of exclusion and discrimination.
–IP
Me, Heart: “I think that the words “all your life” are tremendously important and should not be minimized. How a child is socialized from birth until 15, 18, 30, 40, up to the ’60s (I’ve read of people transitioning in their 60s) matters.”
IP: In that case, that’s going to be a fundamental point of disagreement, I think.
Yes, I agree. I am trying to understand the logic of ignoring the significance of the experience of, say, 15, 20, 30, 40 years of living in the world in a male body or a female body. You seem to be saying that the moment a transgender person “identifies” and, I guess, presents as a woman (or man), their lived experience becomes analagous to, comparable with, the lived experience of those who were born male or female. So that I’m clear, is this what you’re saying?
You’ve talked about women who don’t get read as women but who are welcome at the fest. Such women may not be socialised the way cisgendered women are after childhood. But they are welcome at Michfest, and rightly so. So why this discrepancy with transwomen?
Because all women (born women) –regardless how we are read — *know* that we are female-bodied. To be read as a boy or a man and to know you are a woman and female, to be happy *being* woman and female, is to experience an ongoing combination of fear, shame, self-loathing, anxiety, and all sorts of other intense feelings, depending on how you feel about being a girl. More importantly, it is something you are punished for in a million social, physical, economic, psychological ways. Those of us born female-bodied have it crammed down our throats, every minute of every day, what we are supposed to be. And we also know we aren’t that. When the dissonance between what we are supposed to be and what we are is so wide we are not even recognized as women– that is *huge*. This is not the same experience as the experience of a transwoman who is born into a male body and grows up knowing herself to be male-bodied. The messages s/he is receiving are messages about what a male-bodied person is supposed to be, not what a female-bodied person is supposed to be, and the difficulties s/he experiences are going to be around being a nonconforming male-bodied person. This is a difficult experience, for sure, but it is *not the same experience* as the experience of a woman (born woman) who is gender nonconforming (meaning all of us, to some degree because no woman on earth, even, say, Paris Hilton or Angela Jolie perfectly conforms to what is expected of women. And we all, as women, know we don’t. That is an experience *we all share*. It affects us in different ways but it affects *all* of us. It is *not* the experience of someone born into a male body.)
As to transwomen’s identity– who is denying transwomen the right to identify in any way they like? Not me. Not anyone here, that I can see. Having said all of that, I don’t believe gender is about “identity,” something going on in somebody’s head about gender, in other words. Gender is about subordination. It is about the classing of people hierarchically in the interests of men subordinating women. It is something which is imposed on us by a surrounding, male heterosupremacist culture and society. People can identify any way they like and I will respect how they identify, will use the pronouns they want me to use in reference to them, etc. This doesn’t change the fact that in my mind, gender is not about identity. It is about male power. It’s about the power of patriarchy to impose its will on both men and women by stratifying us into two categories: male and female.
And it seems like you’re ultimately defininf “woman” and the experience of womanhood in (birth) anatomical terms — that is, in terms of *your* experience of womanhood. Every woman has slightly different experiences — why draw the line at birth sex?
It seems to me as though you are continuing to impute to me ideas I don’t have and views I have never articulated, as though you’re arguing with what you think or assume I believe, rather than what I have actually written. Maybe you are just misunderstanding me, and if so, I apologize for being less than clear. I have said repeatedly, here, and everywhere, but will say again, that womanhood is something which I believe is *imposed* on those of us who are born with female genitalia (and the same with manhood.) Having certain genitalia or bodies isn’t the issue. It’s how the surrounding culture treats us *because* of the bodies we are born with, beginning at birth, which is at issue (and which we aim to change via feminism.)
“transwomen often *do* enjoy considerable privilege over women born women.”ivilege over some WBW, yes. But in general? I don’t buy your claim because *most* transwomen, will have less privilege than a WBW in the same social/economic circumstances.
I would have to disagree with you. I don’t think I’ve claimed anything– I think I’ve defended a position and offered examples, shared my own experiences. You seem to be insisting that transwomen have less privilege because… I don’t know why. Because everybody says so. Because that’s the prevailing view in some circles. But the fact that it’s the popular or prevailing view doesn’t make it so. I’d need a little more than that to be persuaded.
Heart
Wow, this is such a interesting conversation that pivots around what one is classified at the moment of birth and just who decides that. That I think makes all the different in the world as to what one experiences in life. It also makes whatever happens later the point of divergence. We all know that boys and girls are socialized differently and into social/economic roles. That one does not fit the proscribed role makes life very difficult. For me the thing is that now with all the technology in the medical field, some patriarchal doctors are deciding who is and is not male or female depending entirely upon a psychological abstract idea of what that means. I object to the experiment. I object that somesome who is born in a male body is not accepted as a male in that body. I object to what patriarchy calls male and female. I object to the fact every child is not loved for who she or he is. However, Having said that, the tribe of women have the right to decide who is or is not in that tribe. That definition is not the right of medical doctors. This is where the conflict is: who decides the parameters? It seems to me the patriarchy is at this point deciding and demanding that everyone not in their definition of male is female and must accept their decision. It is a red herring that diverts attention to what is really the issue and that is the power of the patrarchy to define sex. Just when women born women are starting to understand just what it means to be labelled female in a society that makes us less than males, we are told that we must accept those males who do not fit the norm of maledom. It is an arrow at the very core of being a woman. A nice play in the scheme of things. To reject someone is to deny the definition of femaleness in the patriarchy which hits the psychological target that has defined women.– That we love and are a means of saving the world. To the patriarchy, not loving and accepting means we are not women. I really mourn the fact that transsexuals are used in this way. They are very vulnerable, but the fact they are being used in a psychological game is par for the course for the sickness of the patriarchy. It hurts to say no when one sees suffering. Yet, on the other hand, if one does not say no, then one has lost the right to define one’s life.
“You seem to be saying that the moment a transgender person “identifies” and, I guess, presents as a woman (or man), their lived experience becomes analagous to, comparable with, the lived experience of those who were born male or female. So that I’m clear, is this what you’re saying?”
I’m saying that when you start presenting as and living as a a woman (or man), you get treated like a woman (or man). Ergo, you are experiencing what a WBW would be experiencing. True, transition at, say, 20 means that you haven’t experienced adolescence as a woman (for example). But if experiencing particular parts of your life as a woman is a crucial requirement for Michfest, then why is there nor age limit/requirement for WBW at Michfest? And for that matter, why is there a discrepancy between the way transwomen are regarded at Michfest, and other female-bodied fest-goers who may or may not identify/present as women?
“I have said repeatedly, here, and everywhere, but will say again, that womanhood is something which I believe is *imposed* on those of us who are born with female genitalia (and the same with manhood.) Having certain genitalia or bodies isn’t the issue. It’s how the surrounding culture treats us *because* of the bodies we are born with, beginning at birth, which is at issue (and which we aim to change via feminism.)”
Ok, I misunderstood you before. What I will say is that society treats us based on how we *present* (do you check the genitals of everyone you talk to before deciding how to talk to them?). Sexist treatment is imposed on is depending on how we present, yes. Some would say there is more to womanhood than this, but that’s almost irrelevant. My point is that someone who lives as/presents as a woman will be treated as a woman. How is that not experiencing womanhood?
As regards privilege…
Are you able to use a public toilet without getting hassled? Are there anti-discrimination laws that are supposed to protect you? Is your gender classed as a mental illness out of institutionalised prejudice in the medical profession? Do you have trouble getting medical certificates saying you are able to work because your doctor believes you to be mentally unstable because of your gender identification, thus making it difficult for you to get a job because of your gender identification?
…Just four little examples of difficulties that a transperson may have but that most WBW won’t.
“I don’t question the need for safe space for transgendered people, because that’s obviously very, very important. I just question why they need Michfest to be that safe space so very badly.”
It’s not a question of Michfest being a safe space for *transgender* people, it’s a question of it being a safe space for *women*. There is a group of women who are being excluded, and many view that as exclusion of transwomen out of prejudice.
–IP
Let’s be blunt. There’s a lot of talk about transwomen in these comments and some of the generalizations are just plain wrong.
You are all speaking about another group of people and making generalizations and you do not allow members of that group to speak for themselves. And this is done in the name of feminism?
Look, if you want to exclude transwomen from the festival, that is your right as an American, the festival is on private property and you can exclude whoever you want.
But it’s insulting to have a debate about transwomen on a website that doesn’t allow transwoman to comment. Please do us a favor and stop talking about us or take it to a site that’s inclusive.
I’m saying that when you start presenting as and living as a a woman (or man), you get treated like a woman (or man). Ergo, you are experiencing what a WBW would be experiencing. True, transition at, say, 20 means that you haven’t experienced adolescence as a woman (for example). But if experiencing particular parts of your life as a woman is a crucial requirement for Michfest, then why is there nor age limit/requirement for WBW at Michfest?
Why would there be? The only expectation is that Fest attendees be born female and have lived as girls and women all of their lives. Whether a person who is born female is 5, 8, 15, 20, 25 or 80 or 90, all share that singular experience of being born female and living as a girl/woman for all of their life. That’s what Fest is all about:
(From the press release): “The essence of the Festival is that it is one week a year that is by, for and about the glorious diversity of womyn-born
womyn and we continue to stand by our labor of love to create this space. Our focus has not changed in the 31 years of our celebration and it remains fixed on the goal of providing a celebratory space for a shared womyn-born-womyn experience.”
You are basically saying that the day a male-bodied person presents and lives as a woman (whatever that even means!), that day that person shares the experiences of women. Well, yes, one day’s worth. But that person does not remotely share in the experience of being born female and living all of their life as a girl or woman, and that is the expectation at the Festival.
It reminds me of some things I read some time ago about the deaf community. There was conflict and division over the appointment of a woman to a prominent position in that community because (1) she became deaf late in her life; (2) she was, if I’m recalling correctly, married or partnered with someone who was not deaf. From the perspective of people who had been deaf all of their lives, who were partnered with people who had also been deaf all of their lives and who had lived in the community all of their lives, this was not a person who could relate to their particular experience and hence who could adequately represent them in the position she’d been appointed to. Even though I am not deaf, am not up to speed on issues in the deaf community, don’t personal know, other than casually, anyone who is deaf, this makes total, total sense to me. This woman may well know what it is to be deaf, but she doesn’t have a herstory of living as a deaf woman, in the deaf community, surrounded by the overwhelmingly nondeaf world, for all of her life. And neither does someone who in late adolescence or adulthood begin “presenting and living as a woman” (whatever that even means, honestly!) have the lived experience of being born female and living all of their life as a girl or woman. It is *this experience* that the Festival is all about. If there were a Festival in the deaf community for people who had always been deaf, I wonder how many people would be pounding on the doors insisting that those who had been deaf for one day, one week, one month, or five years out of 20 should be admitted? My guess would be zero. But since it is women (born women) we are talking about, the hue and cry goes up that we should not be allowed to define the boundaries of our own festival, our own celebration, our own space, that we ought to negotiate and dicker with those who were male-born who plain don’t share our experiences.
And for that matter, why is there a discrepancy between the way transwomen are regarded at Michfest, and other female-bodied fest-goers who may or may not identify/present as women?
If a female-bodied fest goer does not identify as a woman, then neither should she be at Fest. Why would she want to go? The Festival is for women and she does not identify as a woman.
All female-bodied women “present as women.” There is no way for a female-bodied person, no matter what she wears, how she looks, what she does, who she is, to NOT “present as a woman.” And why? Because — :::can you hear me banging my head against the wall::: — a woman can present any way, any way, any way at all and she is still a woman. THAT is the whole point of the Festival! There is no “presentation” which equals “woman”. There is no “presentation” which equals man either. It is patriarchal thinking to associate certain presentations with “woman” and certain presentations with “man”. That’s the whole point here. That’s the entire objection to transitioning in a nutshell! How someone “identifies” is again something else. If a female-bodied person “identifies” as a man, then she does not, again, fit the expectation that those who attend Fest be born female and be people who have lived all of their lives as girls and women. A person born male also does not fit that expectation.
My point is that someone who lives as/presents as a woman will be treated as a woman. How is that not experiencing womanhood?
It is, but it is not experiencing, again, all of one’s life as a female-bodied person who has identified as a girl and a woman. That is an important and unique and not-to-be dismissed experience, and I think I’ve already covered that sufficiently.
Are you able to use a public toilet without getting hassled?
I am, but many, many wimmin who attend Fest cannot, because they are read as male.
Are there anti-discrimination laws that are supposed to protect you?
Yes. I am a woman, for starters. Laws against discriminating against me on the basis of my sex are supposed to protect me. I am also getting on in years. Laws against discrimination on the basis of age are supposed to protect me. I am the mother of biracial children. Laws against discriminating against me on the basis of the race of my children are supposed to protect me.
Is your gender classed as a mental illness out of institutionalised prejudice in the medical profession?
My gender (and yours) has been consistently classed as the mentally ill gender out of institutionalized prejudice (sexism, misogyny), just in general, since the inception of the field of psychology. We are the “hysterical” ones who had our uteruses removed to cure our “hysteria.” We were the “nymphomaniacs” who had forced clitoridectomies to “cure” our “problem” or we didn’t like being raped or sexually assaulted by our husbands in which case we were diagnosed as “frigid” and in need of psychiatric help. My gender is the gender that starves itself to “present” as “women” and to conform to what is required of us, at which point we are diagnosed with “eating disorders” and “body dysmorphia.” My gender is the gender diagnosed as sick and pathological for being lesbian. My gender is the gender diagnosed as mentally ill and given shock treatments and sometimes brain surgeries because we could not deal with the abuse and oppression of subordination, by men, by the whole world. My gender is the gender which is expected to marry men and bear children and which is thought to be mentally ill or deficient if there is no desire for either.
Do you have trouble getting medical certificates saying you are able to work because your doctor believes you to be mentally unstable because of your gender identification, thus making it difficult for you to get a job because of your gender identification?
See all of the above, and I could add so much more.
…Just four little examples of difficulties that a transperson may have but that most WBW won’t.
Even if transpersons did have difficulties most WBW won’t (and I don’t think they do, as I’ve said, but if they do, WBW have difficulties transpersons never have, particularly around their physiology, menstrual issues, gynecological issues, pregnancy issues, menopause issues, childbirth issues, breastfeeding issues), there is something important to say about that: the difficulties you describe are *not* subordinations or oppressions visited on transpersons by women born women. Women born women did not create the disciplines of psychology, did not write the laws, did not author a heterosupremacist system which relentlessly subordinates them, and more importantly, women don’t BENEFIT from any of these any more than transpersons do; in fact, we suffer most of the exact same things and many more. Meaning women born women do not enjoy “nontrans privilege.” A case can definitely be made that men do. But women don’t.
It’s not a question of Michfest being a safe space for *transgender* people, it’s a question of it being a safe space for *women*. There is a group of women who are being excluded, and many view that as exclusion of transwomen out of prejudice.
Hopefully fewer will view that as exclusion now that we have had this discussion. It is not exclusion and it is not prejudice. Women born women have an experience of life which is unique. We have been oppressed and subordinated on the basis of our physiology from the time we were born. We have, again, a right and obligation to do whatever we have to do to help ourselves, to be free.
Heart
Vivian, where did you get the idea that transwomen aren’t allowed to comment here? Who said that? Not me. Transwomen are free to comment so long as they do not attack or target the Festival, its attendees or workers and so long as they are respectful and on topic for this thread.
I will say this, however. I have been discussing these issues for five years online. I am a veteran of horrifying trainwreck threads which lasted, at times, months. I won’t host anything like that here. I will continue to rigorously moderate (as I always do here) and I will be absolutely insistent that comments be on topic. The topic of this thread is not, and will not be, transwomen. The topic of this thread is the right of women (born women) to gather in events like Michfest and to define the boundaries of our own space. If comments are relevant to that issue, they will be approved. If they are not relevant to that issue, they will not be.
Heart
Thank you for this.
Welcome back. Glad you had a nice time.
For lawyers like me, gendered spaces pose a lot of problems. My heart tells me one thing, my lawyer-brain another, while my common sense takes yet a third position still.
Nothing worthwhile is ever simple. ;>)
thank you heart, for once again presenting your thoughts in your usual articulate and succinct mannor. it is always a pleasure to read your words.
i will sometimes use analogies to clarify my thoughts. it’s important, however, to understand that analogies are only useful up to the point where the similarities between the two situations are, well, analogous. beyond that, the analogy breaks down. but i don’t think that should void the use of anaolgy as a tool to demonstate a point.
i was born and raised as a jew. like women, my status as a jew was not a choice i made. it was “imposed” upon me based on the circumstances of my birth. both my parents are jewish. and they raised me in jewish culture. regardless of how i “identify”, or live my life subsequent to my birth and upbringing, i will always have been born and raised jewish.
as such, i understand at the most basic level, what it means to live as a jew in a society where being “not jewish”, or more specifically, being christian, is the default. i see the world through the eyes, and again more specifically, through the perspective of having been born and raised jewish.
there are thousands and thousands of differences in our perspectives, based on this simple fact, that i was born and raise as a jew, and most other people living in the united states were born and raised as a christain. those differences include how we each experience the seasons, holidays, family gatherings, the foods we eat, our spiritualities, the days off we take from work, who we marry and befriend – the list seems endless.
when i was a young teen, i publically announced that i would no longer practice judaism. and since then, other than family gatherings on the holidays, i haven’t for the most part. but that doesn’t negate the fact that i was born and raise as a jew, and it doesn’t change the lens through which i view and experience the society in which we live.
and you know, it doesn’t change the oppression and discrimination i sometimes face once people learn my history as a jew. and some people seem to be able to glean this knowledge based soley on my appearance, my behavior, or the way i move through the world.
being jewish is so much more than the practice of the religion. it is a way of life that permeates almost every second of every day, even today, though i haven’t practiced the religion for close to 40 years. again, the list seems endless, but today for example, i noticed that the grocery store was running a sale on gefilte fish. no matter if you don’t know what gefilte fish is, what matters is that it is a jewish food, and it was in the “ethnic” section of the grocery store, in the “jewish” subsection of the “ethnic” section. other than that aisle, the rest of the store was dedicated to the “default”.
i would venture to say that most of the other patrons did not note that particular sale, and if they did, clearly did not have memories triggered that spanned their lifetime.
and every day, many, many times a day, i see, hear, and feel something that triggers in me, my experience of being born and raised jewish. that facet is so much a part of me, a part that transcends religion, culture, daily life – it goes to the core of my identity. despite my insistence that i don’t “identify” as a jew, i am jewish. and that will always be a part of who i am.
i share countless experiences with other jews, even if i’ve never met them. i could walk into a room with other jews, and connect with them in a way that no non-jew could. we could talk about all things jewish for hours and hours, and understand at the most basic level, what the other person was talking about.
when i was living back east, i walked up to the pharmacy window to pick up my hormone prescriptions. the pharmacist, a 30ish woman with dark hair and a thick russian accent, processed my prescription. that first time we met, we each recognized in the other our respective jewishness. we shared a bond, a connection, an intimate understanding of each others lives, in that instant of recognition, that i would never be able to experience with a non-jew.
we had never met before, but we spoke for hours. even though she was born and raised in russia, and i was born and raised in the u.s., we had so much in common, about our upbringing, the expectations that were placed upon us by our respective families and our communities, the foods we eat, even the slang we use that transcended both of our very different native languages.
and this is but one of so many experiences i’ve had in meeting other jews.
i can imagine that being born and raised female, would be analogous to some degree to being born and raised jewish.
i have to imagine that because as you know, i was born and raised male. i have two sisters, one a few years older and one a few years younger. and i saw that their experience of the way they were raised was quite different than my own. even though they are 6 years apart and are very different people, they share quite a bit more as women, than i share with either of them.
i have to imagine that their experience of being born and raise as women connects them with each other in a very different way than either of them connect with me.
don’t get me wrong, i love my sisters and they love me. i connect very closely with my younger sister especially – for some reason we have found that we have quite a bit in common. but the power differential in our relationship will always be colored by the fact that i was her older brother for close to 40 years, even though she considers me now to be her sister.
so when women, who were born, raised, and who have lived their entire lives as women, ask me to respect some safe space that they have set aside, and request that i not enter that space with them, i can *so* understand that. they share experiences that i have never had. they connect in a way with each other that i will never experience. they will use slang that would totally escape my understanding. they will talk about their parents, their schooling, their relationships with their friends, their bodies, their children, in a way that i can never know. the list seems endless.
you need this space. a space where you can connect, heal, share, grow, hurt, cry, laugh – heh, again, the list seems endless. i can’t share this space with you, much as i’d like to. what i can do is offer my support, in any way i am able, in helping you to keep that space for yourself, and other women who share the experience, the culture, the “every second of every day” perspective, of having been born, raised, and lived your entire lives as women.
Mandos, who is I believe, a man, with his hostile and aggressive post toward Rhondda, a woman, has completely changed this women’s space for me, today.
Hey, pony, that’s good enough for me. I was disturbed by it too, but wondered if I was being too schitzy. I’ve removed the post.
Heart
Hey, Ann Bartow, thanks for the welcome back, it’s always nice to be missed.
And thanks for digging up that old bb post of mine and posting it on your blog! I liked it when I read it and was glad you did that!
Re the conflicts you feel, yeah, I hear you. I feel that way too, very divided and conflicted in all sorts of ways. That’s the trouble with having both a big brain and a big heart.
Heart
Nexy, that was beautiful. Thank you.
Heart
I think Camp Trans, an organization set up to harass and infiltrate the woman-only music festival held every August in Michigan, is way out of line. It seems not to understand the concept of a boundary, since it insists people once male but now identifying as female should be allowed to crash this festival. This has been going on to some extent all along, but now they dare laugh at the request to honor festival intent, openly demanding a ticket as transwoman. This looks to me like blatant malicious violation of the boundary of a free assembly, motivated by misogyny and perhaps envy. People can identify however they please, but I think it is deception, of oneself and others, for men to claim womanhood through a sex change operation. Sex change is not what is happening. I am no expert on trans matters, identifying as straight androgynous male, but I see loads of hot air, incivility, disrespect, tricky liberties taken with language and truth by trans and sympathizers in this long battle caused by trans determination to invade woman only space.
Consider this thought experiment. If I shaved, maybe with my long hair, I could pass. If I crashed this festival, as these ex-males think is their right, I would be around all these women in various states of dress. Would I be tempted to feast my eyes, or pretend to be a lesbian? I think in this context, trans are spies, intruders, guilty of gratifying male ego and lust at the expense of women paying to attend an exclusive festival away from males, violating the privacy boundary just like any Average Joe harassing a woman. The purpose of this festival is to provide a woman only space for a week of concerts. Maybe transwomen should think about, why is this unreasonable, or too much to ask? How is it you think you have a right to be there? Through surgical and hormonal intervention you may look and sound more like a woman than a man, but technology cannot alter biological sex, previous lived experience, attitude, behavior, depth of understanding and respect for women. You may experience life treated more like a woman than a man, after awhile read women with some recognition of experience, but always from a male perspective you cannot toss aside entirely. That can be balanced or repressed, but not escaped. What about drag queens? Why not, if any guy who feels like saying he is a woman has a right to crash woman only space? I sure would enjoy this festival blindfolded, just for the music, but I find the motives of these minted females questionable at best. I think male understanding and respect for women can only be learned, no high tech shortcuts.
Something on this misuse of science and language called transsexuality will probably get on my blog soon. Camp Trans Waging War on Michfest. Maybe you transwomen who think woman only space is unfair to you can tangle with me there, if you have the nerve to answer pointed questions. I think you have caused enough trouble for women. Their definition of woman is not for males, or once-males, to cast aside, negotiate, or usurp. If you have respect for women, show it, leave woman only space alone!
Angry Scientist
http://angryscientist.wordpress.com/
Transwomen demanding right to enter a woman-only space?
I’ll paraphrase Nora Ephron:
How like a man.
Thank you Pony and Heart. I felt the arrows that mandos sent my way. I thought about responding and then I thought fuck him. That is always the game. It was just a mind game. Today, I thought well maybe I will respond and his comment was gone and I do not remember what he said. Just that it was a deep threat as to my integrity. I do not know who he is, but he is all over the net. Once when I was at university, this other student started telling me about reincarination and how I must accept it because it was so logically true. At the time I was very young and very freaked. Mandos reminds me of that guy. There is no rational argument because he knows the truth. It is rather like a fundie preacher. Later when all the men in my radical student movement started talking about how revolutionary Charles Manson was, I woke up to their sick mind games. Now, I feel if the man has not done the work, fuck him. Coming here today and seeing your comment Pony was really great. Thanks. I see you around the place too and I too am a Canadian. Where the hell are our rad fem blogs?
With Heart’s indulgence:
gendergeek.com
Google:
Laurelin in the Rain
Vociferate
Mad Sheila Musing
Den of the Biting Beaver
(and her blog roll for the rest excuse me sisters my memory is flawed, and I’ve listed only those I visited this a.m.)
Mandos hides behind a veneer of “reasonableness” which he seems to think will disguise the fact that at every feminist blog where he hangs out, he never adds anything to the topic of discussion at hand other than criticism. It is politely worded criticism, but is hostile nonetheless, and invariably apologetic towarda anti-feminism and the patriarchy. He did this on my site once and I called him on it – he hasn’t been back.
Heart – thank you for these posts. I am in a difficult situation often, I am in love with and have handfasted a transgendered woman, she emphatically wants to completely dissosciate herself with men and her male body and goes through a lot of stress over it, and I sympathize, but I cannot agree with her that women who are born women and live in that category their whole life are hateful bigots if they want a few small spaces to be with each other and recharge. It has been a point of serious dissension between us, virtually the only thing we disagree on seriously, and it tears me up. I don’t want to hurt her but it seems impossible to make her see that there are issues I have to deal with which she can’t. It’s very painful. She somehow doesn’t see that when we discuss feminist issues or women’s issues she often unconsciously starts making excuses for men’s behavior or tries to explain to me why men act a certain way in order to make me feel less angry with them for something they do as a group, and she does this because she was raised with this perspective. She doesn’t see that her college degree and graduate work done in a math/science/computer discipline would not have been as supported by her family or society if she had been born female. She thinks she can offer something unique to feminism by having us “understand” men by explaining to us the problems boys have in their socialization – as if women don’t already understand this, because boys’ and men’s problems are talked about incessnantly in all forms of media, because women are still the priomary caretakers of boys in childhood and see what they go through, and because women are expected to listen sympathetically to their hubands when they come home from a hard day at work. No amount of listening and understnading of men’s self-inflicted problems is going to encourage men to then turn around and take care of women – yet, with the man’s perspective she was encouraged to take for the first 18-25 years of her life (the time before she came out and began transitioning) she believes this is some radical new concept that she has come up with that no one has ever thought of before. And I can’t make her see how that is insulting and comes from a place of privilege, because she has so much emotional energy invested in convincing herself and others she has nothing to do with men, males, or masculinity.
Amananta, I’ve been wanting to respond to your amazingly insightful post and keep thinking I will do it when I have time to do it properly and thoughtfully. Well, I am still thinking that but wanted to thank you for posting this.
You know, it’s interesting– over on the Fest boards many wimmin who are supportive of and defend woman-only space and Fest policy have been talking about intimate relationships they’ve had or still have with transwomen and transmen and about their experiences, as lesbians, in particular in local political groups, LBGT groups. There is so much experience there, so much insight, lots and lots of wisdom. Reading around the internet it just feels to me as though women (born women) who are the most aggressive and outspoken in their denunciations of woman-only space generally and Fest particularly often seem to have the least personal, real life experience with transwomen, transmen, lesbians, or the community directly affected by the very dynamics and issues you describe so well there. They have no dog in the fight. They are often het, married or partnered with men, don’t go the Festival, aren’t involved in the lesbian community at all, don’t seem particularly educated about or interested in lesbian issues. It’s the worst kind of political correctness which allows them to pontificate self-righteously on from a position in which they, themselves, are untouched by the actual *issues* and *difficulties*. Argh.
I want to say more but wanted to not wait another moment to thank you for your very powerful and thoughtful words.
Heart
Fascinating thread!
I’d love to hear more about this some time:
There is nothing “essentialist” or essentializing about defense of woman-born-woman (a term I do not ordinarily use, but use it now for clarity) space. To the contrary, in general, those who oppose woman-only space usually simultaneously, themselves, essentialize notions of “male” and “female”, “masculine” and “feminine,” “man and woman,” and often organize their lives around their own essentialisms, (even though they often claim to be opposed to essentialism, to gender binaries).
Why: because this is my sense too, but I can’t explain it very well, me.
Hey Heart, after thinking about the correction I included in my blog post of a poor choice of word in my post here, I decided it was important enough to me to ask you to post it here, or excise the word, or both. The rest of my blog post is mostly about male androgyny, which seems more appropriate to my blog. Nobody against woman only space has attempted to educate me, yet. I think I figured out how to trackback, too late for that post. My blog post starts out as my post here, then develops my point of view, but in between I had to link to here, and say this.
I have a correction, and also something to say about male androgyny. I used the phrase exclusive festival away from males. This is imprecise, easily misconstrued. The festival is music by women for women. It is not for male or once male entertainment. Exclusive can have connotations such as rich hideout, snobbish,or by invitation only. Michfest is far from any of that. I meant it to say, exclusively for women. Exclusive is logic jargon, vague, misplaced, superfluous, and liable to be deliberately misunderstood in this context. I should know better than to use loaded scientific terms. I actually wish I could excise it from the post, but that I could only do on this blog. It is too late now, just another lesson in the limits of my understanding. I have learned much from my mistakes, but I know I still have limits, blind spots, things hard for me to learn.
Heart – thanks.
I am a transwoman.
I am not interested in attending MWMF. It’s been made plain that it is not a space for me. While I will *never* claim that my growing up was anything even similar to that of a WBW, nor will I ever say that it was similar to that of a MBM (male born male.)
There are people, not necessarily here, who will tell me my life story, and that of my *trans-sisters* based on nothing more than political dictates. No more than I can tell someone else what their experience was, you cannot know what mine was, until I talk with you about it. It was miserable. It still is, often.
A scared and lonely child, who prayed to the Virgin Mary that I would wake up with a girl’s body, finally gave up, (she seemed like a likelier source of understanding for my situation than father and son.
I had the privilege of being beat up for not conforming. I really, at the time, didn’t know I was anything, really, genderwise. I played with who I played with, mostly girls, but whomever. Apparently, that’s inappropriate, and punished corporally. At the time, I certainly did not know it was a privilege. (I knew it was painful, though.)
Some transwomen cope by learning to do male things. It’s not done to support, it’s done to survive, when one is told that this is what you must be.
I learned to be alone for sometime, socialising with teachers and other adults, who – in my mind, anyway, weren’t requiring me to conform to a role. Plus, they were good protection.
In high school (1979-83) I learned that I could socialise as the “mild mannered guy” and survive as a supposedly closeted gay male (I found out that was a rumor about me in my junior year because I didn’t date. ) I wish I had not, but hindsight is 20/20.
I will admit that I tried to join the Army. That way, I go get killed by Reagan’s folly (or Bush Sr.’s) and no one would know my shame, and I wouldn’t have to deal with it, either. I had asthma, though, which prevented me.
After that, I did find out about transsexuals, reading what few books there were, and wondering how I could do that.
To make a long story short, I eventually did transition.
That I lived in a very messed up gender role I plead mea culpa. Beyond that, I still haven’t a clue where I am now.
I would like to ask for this…that I be given my chance to be say how I understand myself, and be listened to, just for that. I will do that outside of WBW space, because I want my space to be treated as I see it to be, just as it is with Michfest, and other places, wish to be honored.
I also ask that I not have my life actively interfered with. If the world lets me pass through as female, please don’t go out of your way to tell the world that I must be a man. Or a trans-something or another. That’s part of my experience, but it’s not my limit.
I will never go back to living as male…such as that existence may be. Frankly, I don’t really understand the glories of maledom, I certainly found and as long it took, I was glad to not live with that. I am a traitor now, anyway. Please don’t tell me the patriarchy welcomes trans people of any sort, whether transwoman or transman, into the fold, or accepts it somehow.
It doesn’t. Nor do its female adherants. I’ve been called “f*ggot” by some people of both genders, people who still feel the sting of society themselves, for being born on some alleged wrong side of the tracks.
We aren’t congratulated, that’s for certain.
I can feel for them as individuals, once I am out of their sight, I suppose. It must be painful to be that limited, but it’s also painful to be within their limits.
I hope for more than that, from those who wish to be free of it. Which, believe it or not, I wish as well. Maybe I understand it differently, and maybe I need to learn a lot more about how to be free, or even know if I can be. But I do want that, because
At this point in my life, I will respect the space of anyone who wants me to do so. The people who have allowed me into their space have done so as individuals, and come into my space as individuals themselves.
That’s all I ask, to be an individual.