[Britta wrote the following as a comment to this thread, but I think it's worth devoting a blog post to. I know Britta online and in real life as a Michfest sister; she has attended workshops I've facilitated at Fest over the years. Thanks for the report, Britta!--Heart]
I was at the [Pornography and Pop Culture -- Reframing Theory, Rethinking Activism] conference from 9 am to 9 pm on Saturday, and 9 am to 3 pm on Sunday, and it was such an intense experience.
At the beginning of the conference, I was very interested but had no idea what I was getting into. Although I’ve been studying and living feminism for 10 years now, pornography was one feminist issue I had not studied much or thought much about. I naively thought it didn’t affect my life and therefore wasn’t relevant or necessary of my attention. I have been anti-porn for a while now, but only intuitively and mostly secretly. Most feminists I had come across, especially the ones close to my age (20s) are pro-porn (or at least, “pro free speech” to the point of being indifferent to porn) and are condescending to those of us who are against pornography – *especially* when someone, like me, is against porn because of her emotions and gut and has no educated, rational, research-backed reasons to give. Mostly I thought I’d better keep my mouth shut on the issue until I could defend my stance logically and intelligently. And yet, I never really got around to studying pornography, because I was too focused on what I thought were more pressing and relevant feminist issues.
Being at the conference was an amazing experience and I learned so much. For starters, I realized porn *is* relevant to my life – the industry is much bigger, and more connected to mainstream media, than I had realized. Also, the conference helped me understand and re-frame events from my childhood and adolescence. There were boys and men who sexually abused me, and debased women in general, and I now see that their attitudes, thoughts, and actions towards women were heavily influenced by pornography.
The conference *did* give me rational, intelligent, research-backed arguments against pornography, but it also showed me that it’s also perfectly valid to oppose pornography because it makes my stomach hurt to see it, and that I’m not the only one who feels that way. After one particularly graphic, brutal, and disturbing slideshow presentation, the presenters invited anyone who felt so inclined to come up to a microphone and state how they were feeling. Dozens and dozens of women got up and spoke about how they were feeling deeply sad, full of rage, stupid, depressed, scared, and pained. Some women simply cried. I looked around, and plenty of women weren’t getting up to speak, but were sitting and crying, or clenching their fists, or holding onto each other tightly, or grimacing in pain. Before, I had worried that my emotional reaction to pornography was not a “good enough” reason to oppose it, but it was eye-opening to see *hundreds* of women having the same emotional response that I did… And our collective pain and trauma is certainly a good reason to oppose pornography. It’s even *enough* of a reason, regardless of those other rational, theory-based, research-backed reasons. How can anyone honestly believe/say that pornography is not harmful to women? We women, there in that room – and representing many, many other women who weren’t physically present with us – are clear proof that it DOES hurt women. It hurts US.
What was perhaps most shocking and eye-opening for me to learn was that violence in pornography is the norm, not the exception to the rule – previously, I had naively thought/hoped it was the latter. Robert Wosnitzer, Ana Bridges, and Michelle Chang gave a presentation on the research project they had done – analyzing the violence/aggression in 50 pornography films (selected randomly from a pool of the 275 most popular). Their research hasn’t yet been published so I’m not clear on whether or not I’m allowed to post the results of it here, the notes I took from their slides… but in summary, they counted over 3,000 acts of verbal and physical aggression in these 50 films, which averaged about 11 acts of aggression per scene. And 95% of the time, the recipient of the aggression (who was female 94% of the time) responded with neutrality or pleasure. They also searched for/analyzed *positive* behaviors in these 50 films, and found that positive behaviors were only present in 9.9% of scenes. There were about 2 caresses, 2 or 3 kisses, and about 5 compliments from a man to a woman. That is, they found that the most popular pornography films were overwhelmingly full of male aggression against women, and that positive behaviors from men were very, very rare.
I saw pornographic photos of women crying, grimacing in pain, screaming, wincing, and gritting their teeth in what’s supposed to be a smile but isn’t. I saw a naked woman on the floor, crying, with a toilet seat framing her face. Women tied, gagged, bound, hung up on walls, hanging from chains, bruised, and drenched in semen. What possible argument could anyone give in defense of this???
Even if it IS true that a very few women truly consent to allow men to do such things to them (in a patriarchal culture that offers constrained and fixed choices), Robert Jensen pointed out, it’s usually not possible to know *which* of the women a man is viewing has freely consented. And even if the specific woman he’s looking at freely consented, when he adds fuel to the pornography industry by buying/renting *any* porn DVD, it guarantees that more women will be hurt in the future.
And even IF (big hypothetical) the woman on the screen has consented to having 3 men simultaneously penetrate her vaginally, anally, and orally and then ejaculate into her eyes, even if she, herself, does not feel exploited, many, many women who see it DO feel violated, exploited, angry, and in pain. Do their/our feelings not count? There was a woman from the audience who stood at that microphone, crying, and spoke about feeling deep pain because she’ll never know if the man she’s having sex with loves her for who she is, or if he’s imagining her as a porn actress, wanting her to act like the women in his DVDs, and how *robbed* she feels because of that. Do her feelings and experiences not matter? What of the woman who stood in front of me, looked at me through tear-filled eyes, and told me that when a man raped her 5 years ago, gagging her with a pair of underwear and saying “I’ve always wanted to live out this fantasy,” she didn’t really understand it – until she saw that scene that day in the slideshow presentation? Does her experience not count?
Rebecca Whisnant gave a great presentation, comparing 2nd and 3rd wave feminists – 3rd wave feminism largely promotes individualism and choice, a “willful myopia to the effects of one’s choices in a broader culture of sexual dominance,” or, in the words of Jennifer Baumgardner and Amy Richards in their book Manifesta, “Feminism isn’t about the choice you make, it’s about your freedom to make that choice.” This contrasts with the prevalent 2nd wave feminist knowledge that “women are a class, sharing a common condition,” and that the fate of one woman is tied to the fate of all women, whether she likes it or not. Thus, the question is not so much “Did she choose X?” as it is “Does X further the oppression of women as a whole?” In general, 2nd wave feminists embraced responsibility for the broader results of their personal choices…whereas 3rd wave feminists are so afraid of being seen as essentialist, and are “reluctant to speak in an assumed and potentially false solidarity.” But it’s not as simple as saying any choice a woman makes is a feminist choice, so long as she freely chooses it, for that ignores the effects our choices can have on *each other*.
Rachel Lloyd, herself a survivor of commercial sexual exploitation (her self-identifying words), and who has now worked with hundreds of domestically trafficked girls and women, spoke eloquently about the issue of consent. The average age of entry into the sex trade in the US is 13, and mostly girls of color, and girls growing up in poverty. MTV, and the pornified pop culture of today, primes girls, to the point where they start to objectify themselves and each other, to the point where it’s relatively easy for pimps and pornographers to approach a young girl and flatter her by telling her he “really sees something” in her and invite her to be in a video or photo shoot… That’s how it happened to Rachel. She went for what she thought was a straight modeling shoot, at age 14, and was taken an hour away, alone, to a man’s apartment, where he pulled out a collection of violent photos of naked women.
Many women who are prostituted, or do pornography, were sexually abused as children, are survivors of racism and/or poverty, were neglected or abandoned, ran away from oppressive situations and had no other options. Jenna Jameson, gang-raped as a teenager, was so desparate that when the pornographer she auditioned for told her she looked too young, she ran into the bathroom to take her braces off with a pair of pliers. Often women consent to do one specific sex act and the men coerce them into doing more, or they are tricked into it, or filmed secretly and against their will as they get undressed or go to the bathroom.
For all of these reasons, the issue of whether or not the women in porn “consent” to it is rather irrelevant to me. Marilyn Frye’s essay, “In and Out of Harm’s Way,” (The Politics of Reality: essays in feminist theory, 1983) is a powerful analysis of how women come to a place of seeming to consent to men controlling and abusing them, through being systematically broken. For example, if a man brutally and ceaselessly tortures and humiliates you for a period of time then varies the torture slightly, decreasing its frequency or intensity, the woman is now in a world of “distorted moral proportion” where simply a lack of torture, or something like being allowed to pee when she needs to, can be interpreted by the woman as kindness. Melissa Farley describes this as “protective denial” – it’s common for women who are prostituted to say that they enjoy it and freely choose it and it’s going well, when what they mean is, “I haven’t been beat up today,” or “I haven’t lost all my money today.” You have to keep saying you love it, or you’ll die (spiritually, if not literally). Most women don’t fully realize the emotional impact of it all until they’re out of the industry. And of the 854 women, men, and transgendered people that she interviewed, who were involved in prostitution, 68% of them had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Those who had pornography made of them while being prostituted had significantly more severe symptoms of PTSD than those who had not had pornography made of them. Pornography is worse in the sense that it stays forever – there’s no way to ever close the door to that traumatic experience.
Could anyone honestly say there’s no connection between the messages men absorb (as well as create and promote) through pornography, and the way men treat the women in their daily lives? As Gail Dines and others pointed out, progressive, leftist people argue *all the time* that media influences people and that “mass media is one site where the dominant class attempts to create and impose definitions and explanations of the world.” (Pornography is a left issue, by Gail Dines and Robert Jensen, ZNet Dec. 2005). So why the insistence that pornography is exempt from that analysis, and that it doesn’t (or even, might not) promote violence and sexism??
Patriarchy makes loads more sense to me now. The pornography industry makes $12 billion dollars a year, which is $3 billion more than mainstream movies earn annually, so it’s clearly a HUGE industry – e.g. just ONE child porn site, recently shut down, had 70,000 men who paid $29.95 a month for it. With that many men, consuming that much pornography – pornography that includes an average of 11 male acts of aggression against women per scene, with the women acting like they enjoy it 95% of the time… Is it any WONDER that men, as a whole, treat women like shit?? Why do progressive leftists accept that advertising influences people to act, but deny that pornography does (or that it’s advertising)?? PLEASE.
GodDAMN. I can’t think of a single damn pro-pornography argument that could possibly make any sense. Even if a tiny percentage of women consent… it doesn’t change the fact that many, many women do NOT, and it doesn’t change the fact that many, many women who see it feel horribly violated and degraded. Even if a tiny percentage of pornography is non-violent, it doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of it is violent and degrading, and that by supporting the porn industry at ALL, one is ensuring the future pain and degradation of more women. I don’t give a rat’s ass about men’s “right” to “free speech,” because as Robert Jensen re-iterated, free speech can’t exist without equality. How is men collecting $12 billion a year to literally choke and gag women and stuff their sorryass dicks down their throats “free speech”??? It’s quite literally PREVENTING *WOMEN’S* “free speech.”
–Britta



steady on sister…you’re on a good path…..
I am so grateful for this Britta. Brava. Brava. I would have been overwhelmed to witness and hear what you did, and then put it into such clear perspective. Thank you.
Thank you so much britta! I wish I could have been there.
[...] Heart at Womensspace has written another very compelling argument AGAINST PORNOGRAPHY [...]
Right on.
Brilliant Britta. Brava!
The report of the woman who said:
a man raped her 5 years ago, gagging her with a pair of underwear and saying “I’ve always wanted to live out this fantasy,”
This particularly stirred something inside me, on a number of levels. The cause-and-effect connection with what men see in porn, and what they want to “try out for real”. That many of these rapists don’t know, don’t care, what harm they are doing — it’s all about them, living out their fantasies, or merely playing some sort of game. It is just considered ’sexual experimentation’ and ‘fantasy’. Because they are living out their fantasy, it is somehow ‘not real’ for the woman? It also blows the myth (not that I even believed it for a millisecond), that porn acts as a “safety valve” so that harmful acts can be viewed without being acted upon. They almost always want to ‘try out’ what they see in porn.
I analysed the spam I got on my old blog. The spam mainly being ‘an advertisement’ for porn sites. In general, advertisers select the ‘best’ aspects of the product to promote it. What did these porn-pushers think were the best aspects? Rape, torture, teens, bondage, incest, “asian” [and the list went on]. These were the ‘best’ aspects of their product, the things likely to entice
puntersconsumers to purchase their product. The drawcard for porn is violence, torture, rape, degradation, humiliation against women and young teenage women, and also highly racist (the concurrent theme). And they can’t wait to ‘try it out’.Wonderful post, Heart, and wonderful words, Britta. As others have said before me: Brava!
I have always wondered about how can one turn this vile genre into something that is much more friendly towards women. Since I, as the next person, love sex and become aroused by seeing erotica on screen. I stress, *erotica* not hardcore, MAN-made porn.
Maybe the best way to counter the ill-effects of misogyny in porn is just making your own films with your best beloved… just as an example, the encounter I had last night was crazy. Definitely something that’s ought to be filmed. Why not?
making sex-positive and woman-positive homemade videos. Would that sound good?
With today’s technology, I believe that porn moguls will eventually be out of work as technology will become more advanced and even more simple to handle… As record companies are dying, so will MAN-made porn.
However, it is our responsibility as women to make sure that happens. Get your cams, ladies!
Wonderful post. Thank you so much Britta and Heart. Thank you. I wish I’d been able to go to the conference.
[...] over at womens space Has this post which is a report by Britta who recently attended the anti-pornography conference at Wheelock college I was at the [Pornography and Pop Culture — Reframing Theory, Rethinking [...]
Thank you so much Britta and Heart.
Related news: check out “Soft Core Sexism”
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070402/chaudhry
and sexualized death threats to a woman blogger:
http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/03/as_i_type_this_.html
Britta, I’ve missed reading you! Thanks for sharing your perspective on the conference. What you said about being reluctant to speak out about an issue because you hadn’t mastered the theory behind why it’s wrong is something I can relate to as well. Especially regarding an issue like pornography, which affects me on such a visceral level too.
One of the hallmarks of post-feminism (I find that a more appropriate categorization of shared ideology than “third-wave” as what most often gets categorized as “third wave” is really post-feminist theory) has been to frame political issues within entirely intellectual, philosophical boundaries. This is doubly troublesome for the potential of feminism to accomplish anything politcally substantial out in the real world because it renders non-intellectuals unable to participate in feminism and it also turns real problems (like pornography) into la-la foo-foo crap that exists solely for the purpose of intellectual masturbation and navel gazing.
Will there be any published synopsis of the entire conference available on-line? Any follow-up actions planned?
So well said, so skillfully summarized.
Porn is a poison of the spirit that sickens men in so many ways. The one insight I gleaned from your post which is not so terribly obvious to most men is that women are sometimes unaware of how horrible it really is.
The full horror of the fact that women are living among men who routinely use and subject themselves to this kind of thing must be publicized. And also, the full horror of the fact that these men are, through daily exposure to this stuff, learning to consider it normal. I think men assume women know how vile it is. I used to think so.
Porn is so mainstream, that most men who use it like to think that ‘cool’ women are down with it, too. Women will smile or laugh it off, digging the guy who likes it, without ever knowing how nightmarish the stuff is that he uses to get himself off.
Millions of guys, alone, hypnotized by this violence and degradation, imprinting it into their sexual response mechanisms through orgasmic reinforcement, day after days, for years on end.
This has simply got to be stopped.
Great writeup, Britta. Thanks.
Thank you, very much, Britta. Brilliantly articulated. l love it, hate it.
Thank you, and bless you. It’s sickening, but it needs to be said & heard.
Thank you. I have posted this on myspace! I’ll probably get banned (being pro-porn misogyny site) but I really want people to read this. Is it ok to put it on my blog on Myspace, Britta?
x
Hi Heart,
I’ve been a frequent reader of your blog for a few months now and I wanted to ask you about something related to Britta’s (amazing!) post.
I’ve struggled for a long time with the questions that porn raise for me – most notably “Is there a difference between porn and erotica?” I have always tried to define that line somehow (movies without violence against women, movies with ONLY women, movies made by women for women, etc etc.) and I’m frustrated because I feel like my position doubles back on itself. I believe that an essential part of womanhood is an embrace of the sexual self, which can be accomplished through the appreciation of erotica – but does “erotica” (as I have loosely defined it above) actually exist?
Any thoughts?
Thank you , thank you, thank you Britta and Heart. I wanted to be at that conference so badly you can’t begin to know. Your summary of the issues is so clear and so necessary: it inspires me to redouble my efforts in this arena.
I’m glad to read this. I was recently almost banned from an a regular old chatty online forum when someone post a question asking where everyone stored the porn on their computer and I instead of answering the question made a few remarks which got everyone all upset. I was told by reponse was not “appropriate and overreactive. Granted it was a light fourum and the people were all half joking, but I have always had a distinct reaction to pornography and some very sharp feelings about it. I did actually feel somewhat guilty afterwards thinking that my reaction was maybe a little bit out of line. I read this and now I think not.
My basic rejection to what is out there is that there are little nine and ten year old boys right now access to massive amounts of this stuff, this is the way it is. They get this information before they have even had time to develop a firm knowledge of the fact that women are people just like they are and they start looking at women as worse than objects. This totally screws them up and then screws women up. When these little boys turn into men, the screwed up perception of thinking women are just a thing they do things to persists; it may have always been around but technology intensifies it and makes it worse.
My question is with all this and knowing the billions this stuff rakes in what if any are the solutions to something this massive, something which is now an economic powerhouse?
Just a quick comment on the above comment. I think there is a difference between erotica and pornography for me erotica debases no one so it would be clear but if not clear a gut feeling about it one way or another is there.
Brit here is the definition of pornography.
I think it should answer your question about the difference between porn and erotica. But you might also check out the website ‘pure as the driven slush. ‘ That’s erotica, I’d say. The NH person, and the SB person may be women but they’re still shilling porn.
If someone else, Britta maybe with something she got at the conference, has more to say here I’d like to see it, too.
“Pornography – Definition
Pornography today is a multi-million dollar industry that is growing exponentially through the web. Sociologist Diana Russell defines pornography as “material that combines sex and/or the exposure of genitals with abuse or degradation in a manner that appears to endorse, condone, or encourage such behavior.” The word, pornography, is drawn from the Greek words porne (female captive, slave or prostitute) and graphos (writing or drawing). Thus the etymology of the word links graphic portrayal of women with bondage and inequality with men.
The danger of pornography is in its addictive quality and its power to corrode real flesh-and-blood relationships with objectified, idealized fantasies. Most pornography is designed as a masturbation tool for men, in which the pleasure of sexual stimulation becomes associated with isolation and degrading depictions of women. “
What a great post – how helpful. Whoever would deny the links between pornography and violence, powerlessness, and damage must be wilfully blind.
What would our environment be like if little girls were as acculturated in the same ways as little boys to pornography? It’s so bizarre trying to think of turning the tables. Perhaps it’s my lack of imagination, but I find trading porn with your friends and relatives, and masturbating in public while a naked person writhes on your lap, or having circle-jerks with your buddies in the presence of two performing sex workers to be weird, desperate, and pitiful. My ex told me all of these tales (and then some). He called it “betraying the brotherhood,” and said he was surprised that I didn’t run screaming into the night. I like to think I used the information in a better way, by which I mean learning a few things and acting in a productive fashion where all this is concerned. I hope.
Thanks for the excellent post.
Thanks for the comments, everyone!
Dina, in regards to this –
“With today’s technology, I believe that porn moguls will eventually be out of work as technology will become more advanced and even more simple to handle… As record companies are dying, so will MAN-made porn.”
Oh how I wish this was a possibility. But in fact, Gail Dines spoke at length about how contrary to the popular belief that pornography is increasing and expanding as technology does so, it’s the other way around: men’s relentless demand for pornography is what *drives* technological advances! The pornography industry, for instance, is what led to the creation of streaming audio and video, hi-speed Internet, pop-up ads, and a slew of other things that I couldn’t write down because Gail was talking too fast. The pornography industry has a trade magazine, Adult Video News, and the vast majority of its content is not about sex at all – it’s about technology. The latest “hot topic” is how to improve the quality of cell phone screens, so that men can stream pornography vids on their cell phones.
The porn industry is growing stronger, not dying. It is integrating into mainstream pop culture more and more. Howard Stern was the 2nd highest-paid celebrity last year, earning $312 million. InDemand, which is owned by Time Warner and Comcast,, had Howard Stern as its first premium offering. Time Warner also owns the WB, which has a show with Ron Jeremy, porn star of “White Trash Whore” and “Black Babes in Heat” (and 1,700 other gems). Boink is a new pornography magazine from Time Warner. Comcast earned $50 million in 2002 just from pornography. Comcast owns E!, which frequently features Jenna Jameson, the first porn star to transition seamlessly into mainstream film, and whose biography was published by Harper Collins. That’s just a small sampling of the info Gail gave, to show how well integrated pornography is with mainstream corporations/media.
To Sassafrass and Cooper, re: activism/next steps:
The conference had 250 copies of the anti-pornography slide show presentation, Who Wants to be a Porn Star?, available for conference attendees to purchase for $5, so they/we can present it in our local communities to educate and raise awareness. In June, there will be a training weekend (in Boston again, I think) for those of us who are serious about doing this. When Gail asked us (the audience) how many of us thought we were going to present the slide show in our own communities, most of us raised our hands – I’d guesstimate 2/3 of the audience. When she asked how many people would definitely NOT do it, 3 or 4 hands went up. She and Rebecca Whisnant gave a cursory training in how to present it – the slideshow comes with a script, which each presenter can tailor to suit his/her needs – and answered some ?s from the audience, re: presenting it, but it will be more in depth in June.
Also, we/they are beginning the process of creating a national anti-pornography organization/movement, since there are so many of us anti-pornography feminists doing parallel work all over the country (and world) without always, or even often, being aware of each other’s work. We need an organization to connect us all. For the time being, it is titled the National Feminist Anti-Pornography Movement and is being sponsored by the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault. Conference participants (and presenters) split into three groups to brainstorm 1) the structure of the organization (i.e. whether it will be like Planned Parenthood, with local chapters; or more like MoveOn/Internet-based; or sustained by membership, like NOW; or something different entirely, etc.), 2) the message (i.e. mission statement, goals, specific language we use, how we frame the issues, etc), and 3) connections (i.e. who to partner with and how, coalition-building).
That was the last segment of the conference, however, so we really didn’t re-join as a large group to put everything together. This really was just the tip of the iceberg – brainstorming sessions to get the ball rolling.
We all had the option of writing down our contact info, either just for the conference organizers to keep in touch with us, or to stay connected with other conference attendees so we can start building local groups… I’m waiting (im)patiently for emails to come!
To TP, re:
“The one insight I gleaned from your post which is not so terribly obvious to most men is that women are sometimes unaware of how horrible it really is.”
YES. So true. I, for one, had no idea how horrible it is. For the longest time, I naively thought that pornography was “just movies of men and women having sex,” you know, with some “kinkier” than others. And I think a lot of women who haven’t seen much/any pornography tend to believe that, too. I didn’t know it is so overwhelmingly, pervasively violent and degrading. I was sickened to learn that one of the most popular “genres” of gonzo films right now is ATM, or “ass to mouth,” which refers to a man penetrating a woman anally and then, right before ejaculating, sticking his penis into her mouth. The “joke” being that she literally “eats shit.” That’s not “sex”….that’s just torture. Clearly the focus is the woman’s humiliation and pain, not sexual pleasure. Or rather, men’s pleasure increases to the proportion of women’s humiliation.
To fannyblood:
About this: “I have posted this on myspace! I’ll probably get banned (being pro-porn misogyny site) but I really want people to read this. Is it ok to put it on my blog on Myspace, Britta?” –
Are you asking me for permission after you’ve already posted it there? And where, exactly? I’m not sure there’s much to gain from posting it in a misogynist space, where it would likely garner much hostility, and is not likely to open minds that are already closed. I understand the value of moving beyond just preaching to the choir, but I think the best demographic to target with our anti-porn writings would be people who are unaware of what goes on in the porn industry, don’t have a firm stance on pornography one way or the other, or are only pro-porn because they think it’s the “cool, liberal” way to be but haven’t thought deeply about it, etc.
I’d rather not set myself up for attack from people who are already staunchly misogynist and pro-porn.
Britta – This is so powerful! Thank you for posting it. I meant to ask you for your email address before everyone left, but I forgot. I wish we could’ve talked about more of this stuff at lunch – it was kind of a weird lunch for some reason. I’m sorry about that. Email me if you get a chance.
Thank you for this wonderful insight!
http://mothersagainstpa.com
Whoever said porno doesn’t hurt women (and men) are ignorant and superficial.
The porno industry is started and still controlled by men who look down on women as sex and violence objects from degrading them with insults (sluts, bitches), physical violence (punches, kicks, pulling and grabbing hair or body).. and all of the women are naked but not all the men. The men are rough too. How many are showed consideration in bringing orgasm to the women?
If there’s mutual respect in both sexes/parties involved in porn, then it’s a difference case.
“Melissa Farley describes this as “protective denial” – it’s common for women who are prostituted to say that they enjoy it and freely choose it and it’s going well, when what they mean is, “I haven’t been beat up today,” or “I haven’t lost all my money today.””
I read about an article on strip dancers and prostitutes. Some of them were proud that they were in the business of “controlling men” and they felt empowered, not helpless! They are just consoling themselves with distorted views (like the Islamic women who claimed they are very happy with polyandry when they feel degraded, used, neglected). It’s sad but they can get out of it and get a better life.
Hi Britta, yes I posted it onto the bulletin board striaght after I had read it but it quickly disappears because there is a post every 10 seconds but I wanted to put it on my own myspace page so it was always available.
In reference to myspace I call it pro-porn and misogynistic because the moderators allow porn to be free on there however, they have recently removed a picture of a woman breast-feeding. This is owned by Rupert Murdoch so I wouldn’t expect anything less however, I have had nothing but positive responses to the post. Infact there are quite a number of men who re-post my anti-porn bulletins so I wouldn’t say the members are misogynistic. I think most of them, youngsters mainly really do not see ANYTHING wrong with porn so, I think it is worth raising consciousness.
Excellent report. Thank you both for sharing!
Thank you for this, Britta (and thank you Heart for posting it). It’s particularly heartening to hear of women being able to share their experiences of porn together in public. It feels like something very important.
Okay, two people have wanted to repost the letter from Jill Brenneman and others opposing the Feminist Anti-Porn Conference at Wheelock College. That letter is already posted here, so I won’t be reposting it.
Heart
FWIW, I was at the conference, which was excellent overall – I’m glad to see this issue being taken up again, and it has never been more needed. The level of objectification of women’s bodies and violence against women that is represented in mainstream media has become untenable… not to mention that which is marketed as porn.
I will also say that I would have liked to see/hear more from anti-porn activists who are survivors of porn and prostitution, as well as from more of the advocacy and service sector. The conference understandably highlighted the work of academics… and very important work it is too… but I believe that it will be important to combat this misogyny via many different approaches and avenues. The challenge will be in building a movement that can tolerate some diversity in perspective and method, while maintaining common goals.
Otter, a great annual conference focusing on survivors and service providers is the Toledo, Ohio conference on prostitution. They’re planning now for the fourth year of the conference. http://www.prostitutionconference.com/
Otter a lot of women who have been part of this slavery can’t go through the trauma and memories attending such an event would raise. Their survival relies on them keeping some distance between the trauma of that life, and the one they are trying to create.
That was way too long for me to actually read, but this is possibly the only issue I agree with feminists about.
Another thing that keeps the porn industry rolling along is that it is a great way for the criminal element involved in it to money-launder funds from other illegal activities they engage in. People like Mae Brussell and others have documented the many linkages between illicit (yet U.S Government-condoned) drug-traffic monies and pornography. Every man who is an active consumer of porn is not only participating in the ongoing sexual abuse of Women/children, he is also helping the Mafia (and various other criminal groups) tidy up their various ‘dirty money’ problems by obligingly shelling out ‘clean pocket money’ for a criminal-money-financed ‘product’.
Passing off the routine consumption of something that glorifies torture and involves money-laundering as nothing more than a simple, acceptable ‘masturbation-aid’ is either A: disingenuous or B: indicative of real mental impairment. Any man using the aforementioned rationalization (i.e., for ‘masturbation purposes only’) of his proclivities is thus declaring himself to be either A: a liar, or B: a mental defective. There is nothing about pornography that is ‘normal’, no matter how much it is flacked as hip/okay/what-have-you– the flacking is the money-laundering part of the scam.
Porn hurts EVERYONE and is not right!!
[...] 29th, 2007 · No Comments Great post here. Rachel Lloyd, herself a survivor of commercial sexual exploitation (her self-identifying words), [...]
Pony- of course I know that many survivors of trauma need to distance themselves from such activity… I know many such women personally…which is why I specified that I was hoping to see more involvement of ACTIVISTS who are also survivors… e.g. women who have chosen to be involved with the political end of this struggle. And yes, Rachel Lloyd was awesome… and one of the reasons for my comment. I am new to this blog… but not new to feminism or radical feminism. I understand that without knowing me, you don’t know that… but the assumption of cluelessness is rather offputting.
Sam- thanks for the link.
I’m so relieved to see this getting discussed. It floods me with relief to hear stories of other women who feel the same way I do about pornography. Thank you for posting this.
No assumption of cluelessness was made by me.
Something posters here might be interested in, from
Donna Hughes:
http://www(DOT)uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/
“This summer and fall, I will be teaching two advanced courses on humantrafficking and slavery through the University of Rhode Island. The courseswill be taught entirely online, so you can enroll and complete these courses from anywhere in the world.
These courses are appropriate for advanced undergraduate students, graduate students, and professionals working in the field.
Summer 2006 (May 21 to July 27, 2007)
WMS 490 “Human Trafficking and Contemporary Slavery”
This course focuses on contemporary human trafficking and slavery, including sex trafficking, bonded labor, forced labor, child soldiers, and domestic servant slavery.
Contact:
https://webct(DOT)uri.edu/public/2076-URIPS-WMS-490
-SEC3000-1749/index.html
During the Summer session, the University of Rhode Island offers a substantial reduction in the tuition rate. For more information on registering for this course, go to http://www.uri.edu/summer/.
If you have further questions about registration or tuition, contact
Julie Reynolds
julierey(AT)uri(DOT)edu or 401-874-2107
Fall 2006
WMS 490 “Campaigns and Services for Victims of Trafficking and Slavery”
This course focuses on historical and contemporary campaigns for ending human trafficking and slavery and on providing services to contemporary victims of human trafficking and slavery.
And some info from a story in the Houston Chronicle:
“Trafficking isn’t just about immigrants in this country,” Van de Putte
said. “It’s also about children and adults who are American citizens who
are forced into the sex slave trade or labor industry.”
U.S.citizens victimized by traffickers are most often girls between the
ages of 12 and 14, sometimes runaways who are having troubles at home, said
Diana Velardo from the Universityof Houston Immigration Law Clinic.
Velardo said others are imported from South America or El Salvador,
Guatemalaand Mexico.
Others, especially in the illegal spa industry, are sent here from Vietnam,
China, Eastern Europe and Africa, she said.
“They fall into the hands of some of these guys who pretend to be their
boyfriends and then sell them,” Velardo said.
Children at Risk in Houston hears estimates of 15,000 to 30,000 people,
mostly women and young girls, who have been transported across Texas
borders, said Robert Sanborn, president of the group.
“They’re brought to locations in Houstonand San Antonioand all across the
I-10 corridor where they’re raped, they’re beaten and they’re drugged into
submission,” he said.”
Six bills target sex slavery and indentured servitude
HoustonChronicle
March 28, 2007, 9:56PM
By POLLY ROSS HUGHES
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau
Porn is prostitution, on film. Any hope of using existing anti-prostitution laws against it?
Phio, I don’t disagree that porn is prostitution on film, but that is probably a losing bet — with all the “legalise prostitution” campaigns going one.
Somewhat related: it appears that Israel is promoting U.S. tourism by selling images of bikini clad women … ? Via betmo,
http://betblue.blogspot.com/2007/04/confused.html
I just discovered this news – http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/internet/03/22/internet.blocking.ap/index.html
A federal judge just shot down a law that would have restricted children’s access to online pornography, with the following argument, which enrages me:
::::”Perhaps we do the minors of this country harm if (free speech) protections, which they will with age inherit fully, are chipped away in the name of their protection,” wrote Senior U.S. District Judge Lowell Reed Jr., who presided over a four-week trial last fall.::::::
Also last Friday, ICANN voted down the “dot xxx” top level domain proposal. Whilst obviously I would like porn eradicated completely, it would be nice to have it partitioned off, it would certainly facilitate better internet protection for children.
I am fairly sick of having porn shoved in my face everywhere.
I felt you lumped hardcore, soft core and erotica all in the same pile, with your use of the protester images, nor did you caveat with “hardcore only”.
If we ban porn we also ban burlesque dancing, belly dancing, harlequin novels, nude photography, nude sculpture (lets destroy Michelangelo’s David, it’s pornographic, it shows a penis!).
If we ban porn we also ban burlesque dancing, belly dancing, harlequin novels, nude photography, nude sculpture (lets destroy Michelangelo’s David, it’s pornographic, it shows a penis!).
Well, this is just ridiculous. Obviously, there is an easily discernible distinction between inanimate drawings or sculptures and the live, on-stage, filmed, and/or photographed prostitution of real, living (usually anyway) women and children. And, frankly, even inanimate drawings and sculptures must be divided into those created from the imagination and those created as records of actual prostitution, which, in my humble and oft-maligned opinion, includes paying someone to lounge around denuded and vulnerable for your art.
[...] Women (and Men) Say No to Porn: Report on the Feminist Anti-Pornography Conference at Wheelock Colle… (tags: porn activism feminism) [...]
If you’re looking for arguments against porn, we provide over 250,000 words’ worth at NoPornNorthampton.org. You might especially enjoy the Frequently Asked Questions section on our home page.
[...] things to stir the pot – one and two. (After reading “one”, I suggest reading/thinking about this. What comes to [...]
From a blog post written by a man (college student) who attended the conference and linked here– interesting:
Heart
Finally a sane voice..Yes, let’s take a real look at the equation and what women really get out of this… Frankly I’m tired of our culture defending bad behavior by men toward women.. When they learn to respect the sexual boundaries of women and that they have rights,even the right to say no to unwanted sexual advances or behavior they see as inappropriate, we might see a culture that respects women.. But women need to learn to respect their own bodies as well. Turn off the tv and quit trying to be like Paris Hilton or other women who basically help perpetrate the image of women as sex objects.
Frankly I don’t know why more and more women would not take a stand agianst this.Or why they want to defend it.You’ve got one point right that isn’t sex it is just plain disgusting,vulgar and sick.
Im an x street kid. I was sold by my pimp to do photos at 14. i was forced into prostitution till I managed to get out of it at 18 1/2.
It still hurts 20 years on. Every girl I knew was on drugs, being pimped by her boyfriend or husband to support his habit too or to pay off bills. Some were just too poor to look after their kids. Wehn a guy came in and asked ‘why do you do this’ you’d just smile and say ‘I like sex’. Because no ones going to buy you if you say the truth- they wants her to be a nympho, to provide their fantasy.
I feel very sorry for any woman that gets sicked into it. I dont know about the men or their reasons.
All I know is I’ve been seeing a guy now for 6 months and he is absolutely fantasitc except he’s adicted to porn, wants me to dress up, is into agressive sex blah blah… I dont know why I love him. I dont even know why im with him.
Maybe he’ll change.
Lil Mija, welcome, and thanks for telling your story, your truth. I’m glad you got out and hate what was done to you.
I think you’re asking the right questions, the questions all conscious women ask when we find ourselves with men who are addicted to porn, want us to dress up, want aggressive sex and so on. What’s this about? Is this about love? Or something I call love that might not be love at all? What is love?
I read an article while on the treadmill at the gym the other day that was HIDEOUS along these same lines. It was ostensibly a before and after story about a woman who lost weight while her husband was in Iraq. She lost something like 100 pounds in six or seven months. She said that once she’d lost the weight, when her husband got home, he suddenly wanted to touch her all the time, wanted to have sex with her all the time, always had his hands all over her, whereas before he left, based on her description, he was abusive and rejecting because she was fat. He did things like, when she was upset, hold mirrors up in her face so she could see what she looked like. She said that whereas before he left, he was ashamed of her and didn’t want to be seen with her, and she felt ashamed because she was a fat, dowdy, military wife, after she lost all of this weight, he was proud of her and showed her off. She credited the weight loss with saving her marriage.
Uh– no. That’s no marriage. And there’s no love going on there. This man views his wife as a fuck toy and an arm ornament and someone who exists to make him feel good and good about himself, and if she isn’t any of that, he evidences that he doesn’t love her at all. In fact, she is disgusting to him. And she honestly believes that how he treated her before was her fault, because she was fat and hurt by his abuse, and that her weight loss “changed” him. It did not. This is the way it works with men; so long as you make them feel good and feel good about themselves, they “love” you. If you don’t do the above, then the love goes away. Meaning it isn’t love. And she didn’t change him. She just met his expectations and he stopped punishing her for disappointing him. This she views as a “saved” marriage.
And it’s this kind of thing that passes for “love” in so many het relationships.
You don’t have to put up with a man who is addicted to porn, tells you how to dress, or especially, wants aggressive sex you don’t want. You are worth more than that, and a man who does this/expects this isn’t being loving in any way.
Anyway, no matter what, thank god you got out of prostitution. I have deep respect for the courage and strength that required of you.
Heart
Lil Mija, it must have taken a lot of guts to leave forced prostitution! You’re the living proof that people can make an honest living in the future/now even though you had a troubled past.
I do not know how good your current boyfriend is treating you/others like animals, waitress, family, neighbours, friends, etc but if he’s aggressive to the point of abusive – please think twice about staying with him.
Hoping someone to change takes a long time and in the end, it depends on the other person, not you. From the way you write, I would guess you dislike certain traits because it reminds you of your past and self respect is very important to you. Did you talk with him about all these? Does he know you would prefer him concentrating on you (not aggressively) instead of porn and dressing up?
What are your values and what is important to you?
Are you sure it’s love or lust? You don’t have to compromise your core beliefs and what you want in a relationship. Hoping someone will change for better is great. If it doesn’t work (give yourself and the relationship a duration to check), you’re better off concentrating on yourself than hanging on to a relationship that you’re not even sure of –
what you want out of life and relationship,
learning more about yourself or
what you want to study (it doesn’t necessarily has to be books),
loving and improving yourself.
To Lil Mija :
Heart said that what many men do is in alot of instances is not loving and she is right. Though I was not in porn or a prostitute I was treated much the same way about my weight and I’ve seen other men do it to their wives as well. All I can say is that that type of relationship you’d want to be in. If it doesn’t feel good to you then you are probably right it is demeaning.
How will they treat you if you withdraw the sex or stand up for yourself and decide that you’ve had enough and want to be treated with respect should be a very telling sign..How will he treat you then? Perhaps that is something to explore and if he starts to become abusive that is probably a good indication you need to get out of the relationship and find some support and help. If so ,please do. You’ve been through alot as it is and probably need some help in dealing with and coming to terms with your past and there is nothing wrong with getting help if you need it. Your self esteem has probably been badly damaged because of all the crap you’ve been through. But it is now time to think about what is in your best interests and welfare and what you need to do to protect yourself from possibly further or future abuse. God bless and I pray God will lead you to what will help you and support you need.
I guess I don’t lump erotica in with porn, but again that may be because of my own perspective that it doesn’t promote violence against women. I personally would say what we are talking about here is the violent overtones and how women are being degraded and treated as objects of porn, it isn’t about “consenual sex.” It is about violent fantasies and acting out on women the worst possible scenario.
We also have to wonder about why this goes on in the male psyche and why is there such a large demand for such violent portrayals
against women. Why is this stuff such a huge seller especially with men? What does it really say about their attitudes toward women? That seems like pretty scary territory to explore but I think it is crucial to do so. It says something about the moral depravity of men and their ability to twist something like sex into something ugly and hurtful and debased.
Finally I realise i am not alone in feeling strongly about these issues!
Recently i had an argument with my boyfriend and a group of his friends who were laughing and making jokes about what degrading things you could do to a woman during sex (like spitting on her to make her think you’d come so you could do it all over her hair)
I was so upset that they would even imagine doing these things, let alone say them in my presence!
AND when I told them i was disgusted, they looked at me like i was crazy and overacting. My boyfriend’s bestfriend said “watch out, she’s a feminist” and laughed.
I felt so ashamed
I’m also worried that my boyfriend is like that too, even though he said nothing at the time.
Thanks everyone for your input, I wish there were more people out there like you (especially among young men) who undestood these issues.
P.S I just found a VERY disturbing website, which reveals what I experienced is not uncommon thought
Link edited out to avoid triggering anyone, no offense to you intended, Sez.
Sez, what a terrible site and list of violence! If your boyfriend could put you or females down verbally, I wonder what he would do (not not) if you were threatened by other men or would he do what he & his friends laughed about to you?
That site women-hatred personified. As with rape and pornography, it isn’t really a list of “sex” moves or much about sex at its core but about men’s desires to violently desecrate women’s bodies.
I wish I’d had a warning before scrolling down to infect my mind with those images. The image with a man using a knife to cut open a girl’s mouth has no reason to exist but as anti-woman hate speech.
I have deleted the link– I think we all can imagine what is there and I don’t want any traffic driven there from this site.
Heart
Reading this only hits home once again. I am an unabashed solo flyer because every relationship I have ever had was dominated at one time or another by a comparison to porn stars.
I was married for twenty years (now widowed), and that relationship was also marred one year due to the circle of friends my husband fell in with at one of our duty stations.
We sought and got counseling–and we both learned how the destructive forces of the porn film industry warp the thinking of men who actually love their wives.
My husband thought it would be a good idea to “spice up the marriage”–and he came home with a “new technique”. (yep, I got injured).
He never tried that again.
All other relationships that I happened to be interested in did not have that level of commitment or understanding that my marriage had. And since I do not even engage in sex outside of marriage, I have had the hardest time telling men not to even have that warped sense of entitlement to my body–just by the virtue of knowing my name.
That’s the real threat of pornography–the notion that a woman does have NO say over her body or relationships.
Peace.
Dane
I don’t think we even have to tread that far into the “potential consequences” line of reasoning to speak out against porn. Feminists shoot themselves in the foot arguing that it directly causes rape. Even if it does (there’s a lot of debate), we shouldn’t have to use such an extreme position to justify what’s wrong here. The problem with porn is that we KNOW–intuitively, and scientifically– that it subconsciously changes men’s perception of women. That means it affects us all at all times in all facets of society. Maybe we can control who we foster relationships with, but we can’t control who are co-workers are, bosses, professors, grant-givers to pursue academic research (did you know women have to be 3 times as productive in their proposal than the average male applicant when a man is in control of awarding the grants?). It insidiously infects the psyches of men AND women alike; it is propaganda that brainwashes us into collectively believing we deserve any covert hostility or subservience, no matter how small. It means that feeling sick to our stomachs is a daily occurance while men tell us that it’s our problem for having a reaction since society vs. 1 is a hard number to beat, we can’t watch anything mainstream because the gender roles are becoming more rigidly defined and insulting, etc. We needn’t even go so far as the harsh reality existing for so many women that is rape, violence, and insitutionalized abuse (pornstitution and prostitution). Feminists and women who don’t even label themselves as such should start vocalizing what is acceptable every single day, regardless of their fear of ridicule. Your silence and submission to the wishes of men perpetuate the greater injustices.
I was browsing on the topic and found this place. I have just been involved in an online debate about porn and was utterly disturbed at the vitriol I received for what I thought were reasoned arguements backed up with some facts. Some of the comments were so full of rage that I dared to question pornography. I had to remove myself from the debate because I have been personally affected and I was beginning to feel physically ill. I was raped and severely beaten at knifepoint by a man who was obsessed with porn. I also lived on the streets when I was young and worked as a prostitute. One beautiful girl I always remember barely made it to 16 before dropping dead of a heroin overdose after working as a prostitute from age 9. It just breaks my heart. It is inexplicable to me the hatred directed at women in this world.
[...] College that was held in March 2007, the first event of its kind in several years. Please check out Britta’s post for her reflections on that [...]
Thank you for this. . .so much. I’ve placed this on the Favorites section of my computer in the place of the porn site my son had put there. I hope he reads it and understands more-these are woman. Mothers, daughters, sisters, wives. Human being who deserve to be treated with respect, not objectified and used.
Corporate America supports porn. Mormon owned Marriotte Hotels has porn available to guests, even though the Mormon church does not support this.
Porn DVD/video rentals earn more money for hotels than food and drink concessions. GE and other major corporations also profit from all of this.
Porn is not underground; it is supported by mainstream corporations.
Debasing and humiliating women is on mainstream radio. Talk show host Tom Leykis talked about women “being like toilets,” for example. Women call into his show to agree with him! This blatantly woman hating show is on three hours per day weekdays in all major radio markets. It’s the number one rated radio show in Los Angeles among men aged 18-50 — they brag about the men being the demographic. How this show slips under that radar screen of the FCC and all the other “christian” radio stations is beyond me.
Anyway, I would say the show promotes the degredation of women, getting women drunk to have sex with them, and it promotes porn. Leykis thinks women are to be used and abused, and he is getting big bucks for this.
Porn is a way of life for men in America. They are all watching it on the Internet, and its premise is to violate the human rights of all women, and to turn men into monsters.
But what is shocking is the degree to which other women support porn and think it’s fine. I believe a lot of these women were abused as girls, and are still trying to get over those experiences. The most pro-porn lesbians I personally met had backgrounds of extreme abuse and neglect as girls, and this story is always in the background.
How anyone can see prostitution as harmless is beyond me, given what we see in the world.
It’s too bad that the only anti-porn stuff I ever hear on the radio is from christian radio! Something’s up here.
P.S. I believe the state governments and the U.S. government actually in encouraging vice. By vice, I mean gambling, prostitution and pornography. Getting people addicted to gambling and sex pretty much distracts the population.
Men are encouraged to hate women, and they are angry when women stand up for their rights. I believe everytime women stand up against the oppressors, they try to push back.
# 57 post from Heart:
“This is the way it works with men; so long as you make them feel good and feel good about themselves, they “love” you. If you don’t do the above, then the love goes away. Meaning it isn’t love. And she didn’t change him. She just met his expectations and he stopped punishing her for disappointing him. This she views as a “saved” marriage.”
Yes, this # 57 post by Heart really sums this up well. Tom Leykis, a very popular radio talk show host based in Los Angeles “trains” men to act like this to women all the time. It’s a woman hatred training program on air all the time nationwide. He is very proud of the armed services radio network broadcasting his show in Iraq and to military overseas.
Now I don’t think all men can possibly be this clueless about the meaning of love. Male poets are perfectly capable of writing about the love of women in profound ways, but I believe men today are really being turned into this BY OTHER MEN.
What I see is men’s inability to even speak out against rape, porn or woman hatred within their own all male groups. It’s men who need to put a stop to this. Men are as cowardly as anyone when it comes to this.
Very few men call in to object to Leykis, and you wouldn’t believe the hatred he spews daily at women for his male pro-porn, pro-abuse audience.
What I don’t get is the women who CALL IN and support his ideas! They call in by the dozens and hundreds. I think a lot of women out there seem to not really understand what they are doing to themselves! Again, I think it has to do with straight women being so accustomed to sexism in the home and abuse in the home that they don’t even see it or hear it anymore. It’s as if they’ve become deaf in their own imprisonment.
This is serious women. If you are heterosexual or even lesbian, run from porn, and leave any person who starts getting into this. I think when women stop dating men who act like this, things will change. I certainly have had to argue against porn with lesbians — for goddess sake!! That was such a shock for me. Now I dread book readings with gay or lesbian authors, because there will always be a lesbian up there wearing tatoos and writing this garbage!!
Call me a wimp, but I just can’t take even swear words, which to me are about male aggressive sex acts!! Yuck!!
Wow, we can turn all of this around, but we have to speak up and be counted women. I know young lesbians have come up to me privately to thank me for my words against lesbian porn. They are too frightened to speak up against their peers, too afraid of social ostracism. Being from a generation that had NO lesbian community at all during my formative years, I guess I am stronger standing by my own lights — following the road less traveled!!
What we need is the beauty of love and poetry to reveal what is grand about human beings. We can bring in the power of poetry.
One thing that I often do when I meet young lesbians or even straight women, is I recite poetry in all its power. The beauty of great language is something we forget exists, but it is ours if we wish.
P.S. Thanks for deleating the porn links. I never want to even view this stuff — the images contaminate you forever!! Just hearing about it is dangerous enough!!!
Men who come to this site, NEVER ever even look at this stuff or it will contaminate you forever. It will take over your mind, and you’ll be a slave to female hatred as well. I don’t think a lot of you would want to become this. BEWARE!! They are after your money, guys. They want to control and dominate YOU with these horrible images of women.
P.S.S. I know, I’m writing way too much here and I don’t want to be a blog hog!! But this issue is just too important, and I want to thank Heart for standing firm here!!
She’s showing a lot of courage just posting this stuff, and will be assaulted by the pro-porn people behind the scenes. All goddess women, be sure to have Kali as a guardian goddess for this work, and have Heart surrounded by protective spirits and goddesses of the past, present and future!
There is a spiritual dimension to this work, and we can use it for good and to protect women’s right to WRITE! This is our free speech that gets attacked here!!
As a woman who had worked long to overcome the mind-and-body bindings of a Baptist/Catholic/US military upbringing, it was not at first easy for me to appreciate the evil of porn. In order to see (and believe) the jagged knife against womankind’s throat that porn has become, I not only had to read everything Andrea Dworkin wrote but also view some images for myself. This may not be a fit for everybody, but it was what I had to do, in order to end my denial about how completely the men who make porn hate all women.
It’s possible to witness images about as awful and about as woman-hating as online porn at the multi-plex, but there it at least costs money for tickets, and provides a social context for conversation (to shake it off if the awful images weren’t anticipated). The insidious fact of online porn is that it’s free to anybody with an internet connection, and has become progressively less about “sex” and more about hurting and hating women.
I recall an article in the LA Weekly a few years ago, to the effect that the more the porn market saturated, the more extreme the acts needed to be. Thus, more degradation over time. More extreme images of woman-hating, in the name of getting off. Find one guy who isn’t going to look, and look often, when it’s as close as his fingertips. Find one woman who has experienced men collectively as more caring about women today than a month ago, a year ago, ten years ago.
I hope you can.
I would never have believed how violent porn has become, if I had not “surfed” a few minutes for myself after reading Dworkin’s collected works, including her fiction (in the downtown LA Library). Now, I need never look again at porn. But its meaning, and the sharpness of its global misogyny, I needed to know. None of us at any age are outside the range of the menz meme of porn. There’s even a genre of granny-banging, and forced lesbian conversion to menz is always popular.
We need womankind’s meme of our own to combat this. Porn is only getting bigger, and more evil in its hatred of women, day by day. Great Creator, She Who Appears as the Dark Mother, Kali, Wisdom/Sophia, Whatever Name of the Strong Infinite You Choose, let us invoke Her Power on Our Behalf. I’ll do this tonight before I lay me down to sleep. You?
Kali tells me that the human male is a scab that is about to fall off the Female Body.
That’s what I get when I ask the Goddess for an interpretation of the uber-porn phenomenon.
Thanks for joining in with Kali, Mary Sunshine. Always enjoy your consistent passion and pithy comments about the cause of womankind ^-^
I keep wondering what would happen, and how soon, if more and more of us consistently invoked Her, the Infinite, to stop the horrors, bring more joy and effectuate our liberation from patriarchy.
For those from the Christian heritage, I have a viable theory of historicity, translation and biblical redaction to postulate the true “Christ” teaching as a restoration of Divine Wisdom (She who admonishes men, and is justified of Her children, see proverbs and gospels), also called Great Mother. But not everybody needs to unravel what I had to unravel coming from the double whammy of Baptists and Catholics. Some women can more easily disengage than I could from the He, Him and Hymn of a trinity never attributed to any gospel character.
I remember being astonished, just a few years ago, to learn that Goddesses had existed in trinitarian form long before Roman emperors and theologians stole the idea and reversed it into maledom’s imperial christianity. The things you don’t learn in Sunday School, or college history class, for that matter … … (Big surprise, patriarchy controls the texts.)
Ah, well… Kali bless us, Wisdom and Divine Mother, too.
It’s been my great joy to read and see the creativity pouring forth into the women-loving blogs this weekend, after some time away. It matters that we connect consciously. I’m glad we’re together in the realm of our ideas being demonstrated for the greater good. Even when we’re not posting a lot, just by caring that we exist, we make our spirits soar.
I’m going to put something down here that is, well, risky, because of the possibility of it being misconstrued,
but I think its important enough, to at least, be open minded and give it some consideration,
so here goes…
While I do not concur with the fundamentalist ‘religion’, I will say, that there was something told to me, years and years ago, when I was heavily involved in the ‘church’ so to speak, and I think, it has a lot of merit…relevance to why we are seeing the Increase, not just in America [by far], but globally in the porn and increase in violent porn especially,
and this is not something that can’t be understood from a Goddess perspective or New Age or Humanist perspective, even a Political Philosophy perspective, in other words, though what I’m about to share with you yes is from the Christian [from Bible--not necessarily fundamentalist 'Americanized' Christianity], it has some valuable wisdom, that I think all women can relate too,
So, I’ll try my best to relay this…the hate spewed in images against women, is not just against women–its against LIFE in general, against Life bearing, against the Creation of Life, the Spirit of Life, against Love, [not just intimate love but Agape love], and against the earth,
all things pertaining to the essense of life and life giving, which, in pretty much all faiths, etc., has been symbolically the woman. [putting yes, patriarchal and all the other rigid roles aside here, I'm speaking strictly symbolically]
but anyhow, this Hate, goes far deeper than just sexual hate, not only that, but the same Hate is there, among the Puritanical efforts to banish porn, NOT FOR THEIR CONCERN FOR WOMEN–LIFE, no, because They too, Hate the same symbolisms and what all women represent symbolically,
the ability to give, create and nuture life, they might be against porn, but they are not against the ACTING OUT OF PORN/VIOLENCE IN PRIVACY/MALE OWNING PROPERTY OF WOMEN/GIRLS and I think This is very important because some of the most vocal systems out there against porn, are some of the most violent and brutal against girls/women–in the private domain–
all in all, its Still porn, it might not be filmed, but its still porn, in Spirit, the debasing and destroying women, destroying that Life Essense–why PORN is, Satsunuma, not just America–ITS IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY, including in anti-Porn countries, they just go underground and the rates of prostitution and by that I mean forced, or, how prostitution is cleverly masked by ‘legal divorce rights of men’ for any stupid reason, the ‘temporary marriages’ is what they call it, well, its just legal prostitution/forced, all there is to it,
but its all part of that Imagery, that tool of ‘fear’ used to Terrorize women into submission, in which they often, sadly, are like the woman with her mouth being cut—
Porn is just the Manifestation in imagery of the Hate that is already there, I don’t think so much that porn created that hate, [though yes it does but it didn't in the beginning create that hatred], that Hate was already there, festering…porn became the visual manifestation that is the outlet [and/or the influence/teacher of that hate] that is already,
IN THE WORLD GLOBALLY–against women.
NOW, taking all that–something someone said to me, years ago, a beautiful person, Christian feminist from the South [and some of the strongest feminist women believe it or not were from that population] but anyway,
from a Spiritual perspective, she and a few of us women [we were somewhat of the radical Christian feminists in that day] were talking about Jesus and His radical liberation views towards women, and the comparisons in modern day America, etc.,
anyway, she said, “Satan HATES women”,
and I asked her “what do you mean” and she said,
“women are life givers [whether they choose to have children or not] and he hates all life, all love, etc and then of course she shared about the scripture about Eve and Satan’s hate towards her because She is the Mother of all Life, etc., and somewhere in the Revelations it goes back to talk about end days, and the violence against women, but how Eve [symbolically] crushes the head of Satan, the Beast, etc…
not in those words but the symbolism, anyway, now, putting this into a political philosophical perspective [I tend to do that, look at agnostics, Goddess beliefs, Hindu, Political Philosophy, Eastern beliefs, etc and find commonalities] but anyway,
since modernized times, when Nihilsm became extremely influental in the world, we’ve been seeing an increase in not only violence and this cold materialism, but also,
an increase in the HATE towards women, first it was erasing gender to where women were invisible ‘as women’, , or no, first it was ‘the other’, then the erasing of gender [both which have very oppressive results], then the sex culture, reverting women back to sex objects, etc., but using empowerment as a ruse to do so, etc etc etc
[ok very simply put and its way way more complex or detailed in this], but my point is,
its not just porn, but if you look at the Increase in Physical violence, Globally, against women–its not just physical at least I don’t think so,
I think its spiritual, I really do, and the manifestation of such a Nihilism that goes so deep, even to the point of internalization…and not necessarily spiritual from a Christian perspective, because the beliefs have common threads in many faiths/beliefs, etc., Including, in fact,
some of the determinist [political] philosophies.
I’ve read Mary Daly and other Spiritual women [I find the Agnostic and Eastern Orthodox women's writings on this to be Very interesting], but,
women globally I feel, do sense it, on some level, this onslaught and hate and violence, directed at All women kind, but not just Women,
but at Life. And its not just directed, its this attack to literally commit a worldwide Gendercide/Femicide against women…and children,
to yes, the complete destruction of the human race. I do believe that, and why I don’t scoff at a lot of spiritual teachings because the signs are there…whether one is atheist or agnostic or what have you,
there is NO denying, that there is an attack, an all out assault, to destroy women in every corner of the globe. Extreme, sure, maybe,
but, just looking at the womens’ human right violations and the Intensity of the violence directed towards women, towards children, towards all signs of life, Including the destruction of the planet,
I think, seriously, there is some real merit to the assertion, that Satan Hates all Women…
whether one believes there is a Satan or not, is not the point, but, the Evil, no doubt, exists….
and its just no mystery really, that its clearly evident, in the violence of porn. Because that violence, is not just against women, its against, the very ones,
that bear life and bring life in the world….
Porn, is the destruction of life, the destruction of the earth, the destruction of the human, societies, the world…
not erotica, but porn [there IS a difference], and while I don’t always share my faith [and yes, I'm way eccentric in that area, I'd be I'm sure, deemed a heretic by many, but oh well], but,
if there Is a Satan, he is, what is behind the Porn industry and the spirit of porn, seriously…[just one of the manifestations],
not to sound crazy, because I’m not…Satan could just be symbolism of the worst form of hate/nihilism and banality of evil,
but in my heart of all hearts, I do think, the banality of evil, one of the tools, to darken the hearts of men/boys worldwide,
is in fact, Porn. Violent Porn…its at the root of trafficking, sex slavery, black market crime, prostitution, rape, violence, rape of children, and murder [snuff films, etc], and yes, even in WAR,
it is, the visual imagery, not just violence against women–but the visual imagery, of the Death, Murder, of the Essence of Life itself, of the Earth, and of Humanity.
If that isn’t Satan, I don’t know what is…..
[if one wants to talk strictly in secular terms, rather than say Satan, I would say, the Fruition of the Nihilist Destruction of the World by the Killing of Womankind]. I can see it either way…
and I do believe, on a gut level, we are at the brink of something in the world…that humanity has never seen,
that started I believe, prior to WWI, and too many prophets [in literature, poetry, prose, philosophy] saw it too, as well as spiritual,
put it this way, know the book Lord of the Rings–we are, women, at the place,
where, we will have to battle the all seeing eye…and the golden ring, that holds that much power, corrupted power, over those who hold onto it, who lust after it, that Ring could be so many things,
manifested in so many ways, fascism, brutality, nihilism, nationalism, anti-semitism, bigotry, misogyny and misandry, [sic]death…all DEATH,
either we toss the Ring, or we will be Destroyed.
And one of the Rings–is Porn/Violent Porn, that Hate of Women,
either the world tosses it into the fire where it belongs,
or we will be consumed by it, and we’ll be utterly destroyed by it, as humans, the human race.
This might sound like just crazy babble, but really think about it, Porn, depicts such violence, that LOVE is simply not possible,
not in a world consumed by it, no way. When there is no Love, no Empathy, no Agape Love,
what do we have left?
DEATH.
its that simple
These words from Tasha rang true for me: “the hate spewed in images against women, is not just against women–its against LIFE in general, against Life bearing, against the Creation of Life, the Spirit of Life, against Love, [not just intimate love but Agape love], and against the earth … symbolically the woman.”
As frightening as circumstances can appear, I do trust the primacy of Life to continue. I trust our collective spirituality to count. I trust that we will overcome, not just as womankind but among those other sentient creatures (men of good will, sons, brothers) who choose to evolve with us.
I choose to trust that our wisdom will carry forward into the future for generations to come, that any good we build in consciousness among us is a lasting treasure.
To return to the imagery of my childhood, I believe that Christ beats the Devil. As an adult, I surmise that the “second coming” is nothing more than the increased awareness of our conscious compassion. And I may be wrong. If so, hope Somebody beams us up.
You know I hate writing sometimes [esp when in hurry] because its Always after the fact, I think of a better way to say it,
Heart, forgive my addition here, but this I think sums it up better…
on the last part,
his might sound like just crazy babble, but really think about it, Porn, depicts such violence, that LOVE is simply not possible,
not in a world consumed by it, no way. When there is no Love, no Empathy, no Agape Love,
what do we have left?
DEATH. [rather than putting death, I thing better term would be,
Annihilation.
thats, that was what I was getting at...[arrrgh], the complete annihilation of human kind through the vehicle of the genocide [gendercide] against Women.
something else too–I stumbled on this, couple of years ago when I was reading older texts [especially antiquity, we could learn So much wisdom if we read the older texts, especially by women we don't even hear about even in the most radical of circles, men too, esp men from other parts of the world],
but,it was something I read in Salvador De Madariaga’s “Dedicated to Women”, in his book “The World’s Design” which, in his day, wasn’t published or allowed to be published in the USA, not sure if he wrote this during Franco’s reign or not, [Spain],
and though, he would in Today’s standards be probably more like your conservative protectionist, he had some very valid points on women’s movements being ‘manipulated’ by nihilism, esp during the times of Stalin, Mussolini, and Hitler, Franco, etc.,
one part he said, and this could relate to porn/nihilism and the WAR PORN and how its used today/violence, etc., he was referring to WAR, but I’ll never forget it,
he’s writing about women and war, violence, but, this So is relevant, to women in the world today, and the war and violence against women,
“…The role of women cannot be limited to a quiet opposition to active violence, but must be also be an endeavour to remove the passive violence which breeds its. We may all be proud of having shed our ancestral cannibalism; but a man [or women] who achieves his aims at the cost of another man’s [or woman's] life–whether he [she] takes that life by active violence at one swift stroke, or–
piecemeal by a passive violence [violent porn-porn and complicit support of, my interjection here] which consumes it in slow misery–that man [or woman] is no better than a cannibal. If not the flesh, he [she] devours the spirit of his [her] fellow men [women]….
…Nothing could be more contrary to true femininity [for today, lets replace femininity with feminism] than this kind of spiritual cannibalism…..”
then he goes on to finish about women, etc., traditional role verse the war machine, pretty much–its a conservative bent,
but basically what he was saying that through the time [modern age] that women were the ones working towards peace, not working towards war, and how that all changed after 1917, etc., but his point on cannibalism and life-consumption, he’s referring to the nihilist consumption that is never satiated, never fulfilled and that like a consuming ‘Gold Ring’, pretty much, it takes total control and that women, in that epoch, were being sucked into that, etc., that for example, women spend all these years raising women and men, then in war, in a split second, war can destroy and kill, all 18 years of that woman’s work, love, labor, sacrifice, etc.,
though conservative, he had some very valid points and he was a voice of that epoch–then it was women holding the gates and gas chamber doors in concentration camps or gulags,
today, its women, [some] being supportive either in silence or indifference or internalized misogyny or deceived into this false empowerment,
of an even worse war machine via the porn industry, that is literally destroying [physically not just in imagery], thousands upon thousands of women, children worldwide.
Until–we aren’t human anymore, but mere,
Cannibals.
I once mentioned the symbolism in so many of the Zombie movies and the remakes of, etc., the relation of nihilism, mass consumption, etc.,
zombies-cannibals, its pretty much the same…
thats what the Porn-Rape culture and War culture and Materialist culture has produced–
Zombies and Cannibals who just never get enough blood…or flesh…..
Wow, I just can’t believe this! I must have missed a few of the posts above mine, or Heart may have added them later???
The thing is, I invoked the protection of Kali for just these sorts of battles, and then just now, I read two or three other posts (Mary Sunshine and another) who also told about Kali!!! This gave me real hope that we are on the right track women!!
Good work everyone on the comments here. I know it’s awful to discuss, but there is hope when reality — Kali the destroyer of illusions, combines with women’s truth telling power. We are speaking up, we are alerting other women worldwide about all of this.
Right now, I have two statues of Kali in my home office. One is a lovely bronze from India, about 8″ tall and the other is from a store that imports Tibetan spiritual things about 5″ tall.
As the large bronze Kali jabs her spear into the heart of the demon, I’m going to write “pornographers and womanhaters” and put that little sign on top of the demon and place the spear right on this little note.
It gets kind of spooky (in a good way) when these coincidenses happen on this site. The spiritual easily blends into the political when it comes to the very bodies and souls of women, and when we speak up and say no more to this incredible violation of women.
Men reading this site, get out there and start telling other men that this stuff has got to end!! Too much silence on your part is not helping anyone, including your young daughters who are going to have to deal with this woman hating poison.
I agree with your website and wish all women would agree.
Thank you