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Women's Bodies

Sexpresso: Women Pimped to Sell Coffee

In a short, sheer, baby-doll negligee and coordinated pink panties, Candice Law is dressed to work at a drive-through espresso stand in Tukwila, and she is working it.

Customers pull their trucks up to the window, where Law greets each with an affectionate nickname, blows kisses, and vamps about as she steams milk for a mocha. “You want whipped cream?” she asks, a sly smile playing on her pierced lip.

The next customer rolls up, and Law throws a long leg onto the window sill, like an indie-rock ballerina at the barre.

“Do you like my leg warmers?” she asks. “Aren’t they hot?”

Hot is not the half of it. To stand apart from the hordes of drive-through espresso stands that clutter the Northwest’s roadsides, commuter coffee stops such as Tukwila’s Cowgirls Espresso are adding bodacious baristas, flirty service and ever more-revealing outfits to the menu.

At Port Orchard’s Natté Latté, baristas sport hot-pink hot pants and tight white tank tops. Day-of-the-week theme outfits ranging from racy lingerie to “fetish” ensembles are the dress code at Moka Girls Espresso in Auburn and at several Cowgirls Espresso stands in the area. Bikini tops are the special at Café Lorraine on Highway 9 in Woodinville, and the women of The Sweet Spot in Shoreline pose provocatively in Playmate-style profiles on the stand’s Web site.

“In this area, we all know how to make good coffee,” said Barbara Record, who opened Bikini Espresso in Renton last month. The trick is to set your business apart, she said, and sex is one sure-fire way to do that.

“It’s just, how far do you want to go?” she said.

At Best Friend Espresso in Kenmore, baristas go thigh-high. An elevated service window offers customers a nearly full-length view of pretty, young baristas — some of them high-school students — in short skirts, tank tops and high heels.

Best Friend owner Wayne Hembree said he requires employees to dress “classy;” in dresses, skirts and a nice top.

“What I think most of them have found is that their tips are better if they wear short skirts,” he said.

…Occasionally, Best Friend does theme days, such as “schoolgirl” or adding glasses for a sexy “secretary” look, manager Heather Bacon said.

…At places such as Cowgirls, the barista is the brand.

“If I’m going to pay $4 for a cup of coffee” said one male customer, “I’m not going to get served by a guy.”

…[One owner] requires staff members to wear makeup and do their hair, “and these guys, I won’t lie to you, they like that,” he said.





64 thoughts on “Sexpresso: Women Pimped to Sell Coffee

  1. Shit.

    And where are the “bodacious” drive thrus where women are supposed to buy coffee?

    To me, this underscores the identification of “having money” with maleness.

    For a woman, the “sexiness” of having money means being able to attract male attention (sexual or not).

    For a man, the “sexiness” of having money means being able to buy women for sex, anywhere, any time, any age, any context.

    Remember when women weren’t allowed to have our own money?

    These sexy-service services, like Hooters, are all about that, to bring back that great feeling for the men.

    That’s what that image evokes for me.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 3:01 pm
  2. What is so “manly” about a coffee with whip cream and mocha and sprinkles? A fluffy latte liberal drink? A John Wayne cup of Joe would be a mug of sludgy grit. In any other context this type of coffee would be used as anti-male symbols. Yet those symbols can be discarded when the male is centered but not so easily dismissed when woman is centered. And to even make it more comical, they drive up to the window in trucks.

    Honestly, it is a bad bad parody.

    Posted by chasingmoksha | January 23, 2007, 4:37 pm
  3. You know, Greenpeace et al do real damage for much much less. Where are they now? Driving up for coffee betcha.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 5:14 pm
  4. And while I’m on the subject: SUPPORT the SEAL HUNT, support sustainable harvesting of a renewable resource, support PEOPLE who live off the sea, Newfoundland/Labrador fisherfolk, who live way below what anyone would get for welfare in the United States, who live as hunter/gatherers.

    Remember them? Hunter/gatherers, the people who sustained the earth.

    Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd tell LIES about this hunt, and the people who live a subsistence live from it, as hunter gatherers have done for thousands of years.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 5:21 pm
  5. ((( Pony! )))

    So true!

    The people who *didn’t* wage war against the Earth and against each other to make $$$$.

    I find the psychodynamics behind Greenpeace and PETA to be so warlike and punitive. Ugh.

    Mary Sunshine

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 5:59 pm
  6. Eww, I feel like I just opened womensspace blog as I usually do, expecting to find a loving, life, woman supporting and animal supporting environment and instead I was confronted with a gigantic bm.

    “Support the SEAL HUNT….Support PEOPLE”. Support seal hunt…support people….supporting people means supporting seal hunt. Yuck, it’s enough to make one stop “supporting people.”

    I understand that people have to take their livings from the earth/sea, but I’m sorry, the seal hunt is just too brutal to support.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 6:03 pm
  7. Hello, Branjor

    What do you think *your* ancestors did to support themselves before the advent of the $$$ system?

    And, if you had to face life in the natural world now without benefit of $$$, that is, if you faced subsistance survival challenges, I’d be interested to know how you would expect to meet them.

    Say on.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 6:24 pm
  8. Hello, Mary, hunter/gatherers and no $$$ my a**, products from the seal hunt are sold all over the world. The Council of Europe banned sale of products from the seal hunt in Europe just last year. The seal hunt is just as much a part of $$$ capitalism as any other industry in this day and age. I’m afraid the days of my ancestors are past.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 6:30 pm
  9. ***And, if you had to face life in the natural world now without benefit of $$$, that is, if you faced subsistance survival challenges, I’d be interested to know how you would expect to meet them.***

    If I had to face life in the natural world without benefit of $$$, which is something, if things don’t get better, I might find myself doing, I certainly would not be killing thousands of animals in annual “hunts” and then selling their parts. I would survive as a vegetarian as much as possible and, if I had to, supplement with fishing, possibly hunting, only the small number I needed to keep myself alive and well. I would, of course, plant vegetables and grow fruit trees.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 6:36 pm
  10. OK:

    So the “right” of whiteboy farmers to raise cattle and slaughter and sell the meat from same all over the world trumps the right of aboriginal people to hunt and slaughter seals?

    And whiteboy deer hunters?


    C’mon, Greenpeace, pick on somebody your own size.

    And if the days of the aboriginal’s ancestors is past, then what *would* you like them to produce and sell, all over the world, now that we’ve ripped off their land and livlihood from them?

    Did you even *read* the link that Pony gave us?

    Are you aware that Pony is Metis?

    Say on ….

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 6:42 pm
  11. While we’re on the subject of coffee and the sexual exploitation of women I wanted to share this information about Ethiopia found on the Traffick Jamming blog.

    What’s the connection between coffee bean prices and prostitution in Ethiopia? You guessed it: control of prices by US and EU multinationals which is resulting in life-threatening poverty for Ethiopian women and girls.

    I just saw the movie, Black Gold A beautiful and inspiring movie, it documents economic assaults against Ethiopian coffee farmers by dominant countries’ coffee buyers’ interests. This kind of economic brutality is one of the direct causes of prostitution/trafficking. To get to the root of the racism, colonial economic policies, and lethal sexism which causes prostitution, we must address global free trade issues.

    What can you do?

    1) See the movie Black Gold

    2) Do not buy Starbuck’s coffee until they sign an agreement with Ethiopian coffee cooperatives that gives the growers a fair price (a 1% increase in the price of Ethiopian coffee on the world market will result in billions of dollars going to Ethiopia and will enable them to survive without US economic aid).

    3) When you discuss the needs of women and children who are trafficked, always address the issue of economic justice. Trafficking does not exist in a vacuum separate from other sexism, racism, and poverty.

    4) Locate some Ethiopian coffee that is FREE TRADE coffee in your town. It is some of the best in the world.

    Melissa Farley

    Posted by Sam | January 23, 2007, 6:55 pm
  12. Yes, I read the link and yes, I am aware that Pony is Metis. And where on earth did I say whiteboy farmers have any “right” to slaughter cattle and sell meat all over the world? Disagreeing with you means I am a shameless supporter of “whiteboys?”All of a sudden I’m the enemy? I am as against that brutality as I am against the brutality of the seal hunt. I was responding to the assertion that the seal hunt is only about hunter/gatherers and subsistence and has nothing to do with $$$. Do not put words into my mouth. Also, I am not “Greenpeace” and I am not even familiar with the organization.

    Anyway, this discussion is supposed to be about the pimping of women to sell coffee, so I do not think it should have been diverted to this topic in the first place and I am not going to respond on this topic again.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 6:55 pm
  13. 🙂

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 6:58 pm
  14. It appears you’ve never lived the lifestyle you think you’d do, if need be, never lived north of the treeline, or two days dogsled from the latest supermarket, or where nothing edible grows–Newfoundland/Labrador is not called The Rock for no reason, and since you have made this judgement without any knowledge of what you are talking about, I say, step back. You are wrong. As you well know, the people at the bottom of the chain make a barely subsistence living. You have no idea. NO idea.

    I won’t divert further.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 7:01 pm
  15. If I lived north of the treeline with nothing edible growing I would migrate southward. But then, that’s just me.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 7:13 pm
  16. Sure you would. You’ve move to Washington State, and sell coffee. Indigenous peoples (and the people of Nfld/Ldr are by reasonable definition) have a right to live where they have lived for hundreds and thousands of years, in a way that is sustainable to the land and sea, and to them, and not have to migrate to the sick sick societies in the cities, and that exist in the south. All I ask is that you Americans who buy your food wrapped in plastic, and wonder why the Mexicans are marching through your streets demanding a human way of life, or young women pimped out to sell anything have little to no choice but to do what they do. The Nfld/Ldr people and other similar cultures are desperately trying to live a clean good life, and not to have their daughters (and sons) be pimped out for a plastic world.

    Sorry Heart really sorry.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 7:27 pm
  17. Pony,

    Rock on.

    Mary Sunshine

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 7:34 pm
  18. You may not understand this about the “south”, but not every square inch of it is covered in cities. I live in New Jersey, which is probably the most urbanized state in the United States, and New Jersey contains the Pine Barrens, which are 1.1 million acres *within* the Pinelands National Reserve and comprises 22% of the entire land mass of the state. This is nowheres near as big as the Canadian north, I am sure, but it sure is plenty of “noncity”. I was supposed to be living in the natural world without $$, remember?

    OK, so one minute Mary’s praising people “not waging war against earth to make $$$” and the next minute she’s defending their right to do it just as the “whiteboys” are. I don’t know, I must be dense or something, I do understand that people need to survive but it is beyond me how we are going to get a better world if everybody just starts doing as the white man has done.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 7:48 pm
  19. It’s a farm, not a forest, because there’s nothing natural there. It was planted. Too little too late. And not what thinking Canadians will let happen to our remaining wild lands.

    The whole of Nfd/Ldr is much larger than New Jersey, but the land cannot sustain the TOTAL pop of 515,000. It is the sea that sustains, and they are “organic” farming it.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 8:10 pm
  20. Branjor,

    I was just making the contrast between the war being waged against aboriginal harvesting rights by Greenpeace, and comparing the scale of their harvest to that of beef farmers. Farmers make war against the planet by altering the original ecosystem, destroying forests, making species extinct in the process. Hunting and gathering lifestyles do not.

    The connection to feminism is that the Neolithic societies that developed around the practice of farming were the basis for the more “advanced” forms of patriarchy that created ownership of actual tracts of the Earth herself, based on violent male conflict. The consequent development of surpluses, slavery, weaponry, and the $$$ system are what has led to the large scale war being waged against the Earth now by males of all races in neolithic societies.

    Does that make sense?

    Can you see the issues of scale here, and the qualities of the killing being done?

    As for vegetarianism: everything that we eat started as a form of life. Harvesting carrots kills them. Cultivating soil kills earthworms.

    Perhaps you could question the source of your own emotional intensity on the subject.

    I used to be a vegetarian.

    Then I figured it out.

    Mary Sunshine

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 8:22 pm
  21. AWESOME quote from Melissa Farley, Sam, thanks!

    I just saw the movie, Black Gold A beautiful and inspiring movie, it documents economic assaults against Ethiopian coffee farmers by dominant countries’ coffee buyers’ interests. This kind of economic brutality is one of the direct causes of prostitution/trafficking. To get to the root of the racism, colonial economic policies, and lethal sexism which causes prostitution, we must address global free trade issues.


    Re the seal hunt, Indigenous/Aboriginal people’s rights, feminism, animal rights:

    This is interesting, and I thought this was particularly good:

    The Position of’s position on the Harp seal slaughter: has always supported indigenous culture and causes. The Inuit have the sovereign right to subsistence hunt seals for food and commercial needs. The Inuit are not hunting baby harp seals, but rather adult ring seals. They also do not use brutal killing tactics, and are not decimating a species of animal.

    Our fight is not with the Inuit, but rather the Canadian government and the commercial slaughter of baby harp seals. The Canadian government likes to tell the world that this slaughter is “98% humane.” The facts and documented evidence shows that to be an outright lie.

    What is 98% humane about clubbing to death 12-day old baby harp seals, with a large ice-pick-like hakapik (many requiring second strikes)? What is 98% humane about skinning alive these defenseless creatures? What is 98% humane about killing baby Harp seals so someone can show off their expensive seal pelts?

    There is a difference in an indigenous culture’s right to hunt for food and economic survival, and the non-indigenous Newfoundlander’s massive slaughter of defenseless animals for profit and vanity! does not condone the killing of any creature, but we do understand the Inuit’s right to do so.

    We believe that baby harp seals have as much right (if not more) to be on this planet, than we do. We will continue to do what we can to make the world aware of this slaughter and to do what we can to stop it.

    With respect,
    Patrick Doyle

    Here is an interesting blog post which looks to be notes to a pretty good lecture. These parts stood out to me as insightful and helpful:

    Interview with Rod Coronado and Mirha-Soleil Ross

    Coronado, an indigenous person from the Pascua Yaqui Nation, instead proposes a different solution to environmental catastrophe, one that does not see the struggle for animal rights as counter to indigenous’ struggles.
    Rather than distancing ourselves from the animal rights movement, Coronado calls for an alliance between the grassroots animal liberation movements and indigenous movements (2003, pp. 19-20).

    Indeed, he understands animal activism as an integral part of indigenous resistance and survival:

    I see veganism, I see animal liberationism, I see radical environmentalism to be the modern incarnations of indigenous resistance. I see everything that we fight for today to be the equivalent of what my ancestors fought for. I see breaking into laboratories to rescue animals and sabotaging logging equipment to be the equivalent of burning down the forts and fighting to defend your lands as it was 100 & 200 years ago. I think that this struggle is so much older than the animal rights’ and environmental movements. It goes back to people that have for hundreds of years believed in the same things that we now fight for. Now those spirits or those people that have died and suffered for the same struggle are inside our bodies because we live in this land that they lived in. We nurture ourselves with the same energy and life force of the earth that they nurtured themselves with an their spirits speak to us…. And in this day and age we are called environmental or animal rights’ activists but I think it’s important for all of us to recognize that it’s much bigger than just the environment and the animals. It’s about earth rights. It’s about air rights, water rights, rock rights, the rights of every natural creation to survive. So we have to get outside of these little pockets and compartments that society tries to force us in and rip off those labels that they stick on us. We have to recognize that we’re all fighting the same opponent. (pp. 19-20)

    The Rod Coronado interview offers a perspective of an indigenous person involved with the animal liberation and environmental movements.
    According to Coronado, his actions for animals and the earth are inspired by his cultural background. “So for me,” he states, “I have an incredible empathy with the animals that are on fur farms and in the wild in steel-jaw leg hold traps because they are my relations and they are suffering just as my ancestors suffered” (qtd. in Ross, 2003, p. 11).

    Also this:

    Tools for a Cross-Cultural Feminist Ethics”
    by Greta Gaard

    Gaard’s article also unsettles the false dualism between Native people and animal rights activism, but with a critical gaze cast on both the environmental and animal rights movements.

    Gaard’s (2001) article historicizes and deconstructs the controversy surrounding the proposed Makah whale hunt from a feminist perspective, and evaluates the multiple environmental, animal rights and indigenous positions embodied therein. She concentrates on the conflicting and divergent voices within the Makah community, with emphasis given to the most marginal perspectives, specifically from elder women.

    Throughout the article, she treats the debate like a rubic’s cube, examining each side and also shifting the pieces to re-frame the “sides” themselves.
    Gaard strives to develop ethical tools that can accommodate complex issues, such as the hunt. Centrally, she wants to explore ways in which anti-racist feminists might begin to include animal and environmental issues into their analyses (and how these these issues relate to indigenous rights), and ways in which ecofeminists may develop a cross-cultural ethics (p. 2).

    Her exploration involves a critical examination of the limitations of ecofeminist theory, and a refinement of its strengths, such as its contextual approach to ethics (p. 2).

    In this way, Gaard’s article is just a much about (eco)feminist methodology as it is about the Makah hunt. Similar to the work of Haraway (2003) and Derrida (2004), her ethics are understood as a process.
    She suggests ideas for navigating difficult ethical territory, especially in light of “competing political and environmental claims” (p.2).

    She illustrates how feminists may deconstruct a debate holistically, by attending to power and both human and non-human “voices.”

    Also, the application of her theory to a specific situation is not only useful as a pedagogical tool to demonstrate her ethical approach, but her article also contributes an empathetic and mindful awareness to what has been an extremely divisive issue.

    Like Coronado, she points out the diversity of opinions within indigenous communities (p. 5). For example, Gaard writes, “Makah elders who denounce the hunt claim that the hunters are not following the traditional ways, that the whales will not be use for food, and that Makah Tribal Council is only interested in money” (p. 5).

    Yet, recognition of alternative viewpoints within the Makah community does little to alleviate tensions between supporters for and protesters against the hunt.

    Thus, she looks to the help of bicultural, multiethnic “border crossers”, such as Linda Hogan, who can “translat[e] the ethical voices and beliefs of each so they can be heard by the other” (p. 19). [“Each” refers to the dominant non-native environmentalist/animal rights activists cultural context and the marginalized cultural context of the Makah (p. 19)].

    In her concluding section, “Tools for Cross-Cultural, Antiracist Feminist Ethics,” Gaard summarizes her strategies for working within complex ethical contexts, building solidarity, and challenging the “oppression within the movements and the culture which we are a part” (p. 21).

    There are so, so many considerations here.


    Posted by womensspace | January 23, 2007, 8:26 pm
  22. “”is parroting the Greenpeace/Sea Shepherd information. They are speaking from an American urban perspective, passing on incorrect information. Baby seals have not been harvested for some years and that video is part of the incorrect propaganda and sentimentality used to keep the money flowing to the millionaires who run the “non-profit” Sea Shepherd and similar organizaitons. See my first link. Read and ask again, why is that young woman being pimped out to sell coffee?

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 8:45 pm
  23. Thanks, pony. The only way to get to what’s true is to offer stuff and then have those of us who know, say, “that’s not true”! This is an area I haven’t thought much about for a while, although I did some writing about it years ago when the Makah out here were given the right to have whale hunts.

    Huh, I think I have an article about that on my old Margins site.


    Posted by womensspace | January 23, 2007, 8:53 pm
  24. “Animal Rights” are best served by humans returning to a hunting gathering society.

    Of course, that would mean reducing the size of the human population on this planet to about .5% of what it is now.

    But, that could be a *good* thing. 🙂

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 8:54 pm
  25. Actually, I looked and I’ve got the entire Greta Gaard article linked on the old Margins. I remember thinking it was good, but it’s been years since I read it.


    Posted by womensspace | January 23, 2007, 8:55 pm
  26. Sounds like returning to the archaic future to me. 🙂


    Posted by womensspace | January 23, 2007, 8:58 pm
  27. Yes, Mary, it makes sense but I still cannot support the seal hunt. Unfortunately, the harvest of the seal hunt is growing, as last year’s was the biggest. For the record, I am just as opposed to beef farmers and slaughterhouses. As to vegetarianism, much of it just consists of eating the fruits of a plant without killing the plant. For the rest of it, I still choose to eat something that doesn’t have the cognitive abilities of an animal and can’t experience the horror, fear and pain of me clubbing it to death, shooting it or whatever. The source of my “emotional intensity” as you put it is quite clear to me. When I was a patient in a “mental health” center” and one hospital, I was treated and regarded in a way that I later realized was how the human species treats and regards animals – as lesser beings who don’t have as much stake in living as they do. As I don’t have any respect for their views of me, I don’t have any respect of their views of animals and I identify with animals. Anyway, any human who tries to hurt or kill an animal unecessarily in my presence had better up and run for their human life.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 9:00 pm
  28. OK, here’s a link to an article that contradict’s what Pony’s link says about seal pups not being hunted, only adults. It is not from Greenpeace or PETA. I am sure you will say it is lying, just as it says there are things the Canadian government does not want us to know about the seal hunt, but here it is anyway.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 9:11 pm
  29. I understand and respect your point of view Branjor, about vegetarianism. I don’t think they are killing unnecessarily. Sport hunting, now that’s different.

    I own fur, I have worn fur, I have sealskin clothing. I have no need of it now. But I have for the most of my life not lived in a city which is far more killing of us and more costly in that killing, than any harvest of the sea, whether done by Inuit, or Newfoundlanders/Labradorians. Sometimes, we have to accept that people who don’t live where we do, don’t live like we do, and I’m damn glad they don’t.

    Being pimped for coffee is an extreme example, but a very GOOD example of how degenerate our society has become, and how little we understand of why becomes evident when we put our efforts to blocking alternatives. White skin or brown, the bitter harsh living conditions in Nfd/Lbr and Cambrige Bay are no respectors of colour. You will lose your culture, starve and die, without taking what the land and sea offer. The option is to take what the government offers, welfare, sick store food, and send your daughters to the city to be pimped for coffee.

    I drink Fair Trade organic, by the way. I buy it at this store, and never drink coffee out. And if it was cold enough, I’d be wearing my sealskin to get there to buy it. It’s a lot less destructive than a car, with one person sitting in it, or a bus, both spewing carcinogenic fumes and smoke.

    I see Heart has the Pickton stories up. Each one of those women is a woman who’s mother lost her native rights, so supermarkets and condos could be built on it. (Yes even the blonde, whose surname is common in northern Saskatchewan).

    Peace to you Branjor really. And that’s a sincerely non-conflicted Peace without the dreadlocks I see those asshole Greenpeasers wearing. I bet they’ve got those porny Alicia Keys t-shirts under their Patagonia jackets, which have lotsa pockets for their I-Pods and cell phones etc.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 9:23 pm
  30. Fish and fruit.

    That’s what I would eat in a non-overcrowded hunting and gathering society.

    It’s a very easy food habit in a tropical climate, and actually a traditional food habit of the Inuit people of the canadian North, although I think that seals and whales figured in there, too. Fruit was gathered in the summer months, and dried for winter use.

    Fish and fruit are a paleo (but not vegetarian) diet.

    I lived on the equator for a bit more than a year and came to the realization that that was the food habit of the original people of the Malaysian peninsula. There, fish are so amazingly abundant (or *used* to be) that what you can just walk out and scoop up in a net is a tiny tiny fraction of the population.

    Likewise fruit. Papayas are a “nuisance” plant there, just as dandelions are in Ontario.

    Fish provide the omega-3 fatty acids upon which optimal brain function depends. Also, abundant protein. Bones provide calcium.

    Fruit supplies all the other stuff we need.

    I have no desire to participate in the hunt and slaughter of large mammals at this point in my life, but if I were younger, and raising children, that could be different.

    Neolithic food habits enslave plants (think orchards, grain monocultures, etc) as well as animals. I live with plants and not with animals at this point in my life, and know them to be sentient and sensitive, feeling beings. Nevertheless, I am about to go into the kitchen to take a (living! yes, until slaughtered by slicing, cabbages are living) cabbage and stuff it through the food processor to make coleslaw.

    I am queasy about the scapegoating of marginalized people to do whatever it is that they are required to do in order to survive.

    Even if there *are* 99 times too many of our species on this planet for Her well being.

    Mary Sunshine

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | January 23, 2007, 9:24 pm
  31. Yes they are lying, showing old film and calling pups that are not nursing, baby seals. Because baby anything gets your gut, right? Anything but baby Nfldlanders. I can’t list all the organizations. I used the two most well known, but these people are the most dishonest. Their leader retired a multi-millionaire. They make millions off your donations. The seal hunter make $105 for a PRIME pelt.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 9:26 pm
  32. Years ago, when refrigeration was non-existent peasants used to cut the leg off a pig, leaving the pig to live in pain while the leg was eaten. A few days later, the peasants would cut another leg off. This was their culture. edited

    edited I don’t think beating an animal to death is fine. It usually takes a while to die.edited

    Besides edited fishermen are depleting the oceans past the point of recovery. Soon the seal population will decrease, if it is not already, due to a reduction of their food supply.

    Posted by J | January 23, 2007, 10:21 pm
  33. I don’t respond to personally directed hostility and sarcasm, particularly that which is uninformed about the issue.

    Posted by Pony | January 23, 2007, 10:44 pm
  34. J, I’ve edited out the hostility towards pony and the racist (anti-indigenous people) commentary in your comment. Please post respectfully.


    Posted by womensspace | January 23, 2007, 10:52 pm
  35. Heart, thanks for your post. Who knows what’s true? My link was from an animal rights organization, Pony’s was an official Canadian government website.

    As to the Pine Barrens being planted, I’ve seen pictures of it taken in the 19th century. I think it was there before the white settlers landed on our shores.

    Anyway, I was reading Gaard’s article. Wow, it’s COMPLICATED. I have to give it a more careful reading.

    Peace to you, Pony, and Mary.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 11:07 pm
  36. Peace to you Branjor really. And that’s a sincerely non-conflicted Peace without the dreadlocks I see those asshole Greenpeasers wearing. I bet they’ve got those porny Alicia Keys t-shirts under their Patagonia jackets, which have lotsa pockets for their I-Pods and cell phones etc.

    Omg, what an image!!



    Posted by Heart | January 23, 2007, 11:28 pm
  37. While I am pretty sympathetic towards the First Nations peoples being able to make a living by their traditional ways, I think the Canadian Government is pretty disingenuous when it pretends to be managing the resources for them. I think alot of the seal hunters now are former cod fishermen whose livelihood was destroyed by the mismanagement of the cod by the government.
    Here on the west coast the First Nations people are not allowed to sell their catch, yet the fight for the salmon is always framed as between them and the white fishermen. It is in fact a much larger problem as their spawning streams are becoming much too hot for them to survive and too polluted or obstructed, (not to mention the problems of salmon farms). So, for my 2 cents, it is not an issue of native/white, but one of taking care of what we have been gifted. If that sounds flaky, so be it. Environmentalist make us aware that resources are not infinite. Governments like to make them the demons, so they can carry on not bothering to figure out what we should be doing about the environment. It is the typical patriarchal game. Exploit and misdirect. Use one against another, especially when survival is at stake for the victims.

    Posted by rhondda | January 23, 2007, 11:34 pm
  38. I should ask my Canadian relatives about the seal hunt. My mother’s family lives in Nova Scotia and her grandfather made his living by farming and whaling off the banks of Newfoundland. It would be interesting to hear their views.

    **Omg, what an image!!***

    Yeah, as good as me being pimped to sell coffee, which I did *not* appreciate. I would starve before I did it. Pony’s great at images, isn’t she? Anyway, she’s probably right about the Greenpeace image.

    Posted by Branjor | January 23, 2007, 11:58 pm
  39. Well Nflders would starve before they send their kids off to do it too. But like most dying cultures, they children and working age people are leaving the rock, to work in the oil fields. It’s a culture of old men and old women. Don’t worry, none of the leader of the ‘non-profit’ anti sealing groups will suffer.

    There is a lot of respect among native people who do live hunting, fishing and trapping, for people like the Newfoundlanders who do the same, with their resources. But not everyone. Yes, governments have created some of the inequity among native peoples and whites, and some of the animosities among various native peoples have always been there. And there are political motivations among individuals in both groups. That they are made worse by boundaries and laws and quotas doesn’t help.

    I think if you ask the people who are fishers, you will get differing answers too Branjor. Natives do not speak with one voice, neither do fishers.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 1:26 am
  40. Branjor, I definitely did not think of you in that Greenpeace image! I think of you the way I am, old school radical feminist, vegetarian, nonviolent, creature loving, earth loving. I doubt either of us would wear anything with a pocket for an I-Pod. 🙂


    Posted by womensspace | January 24, 2007, 1:30 am
  41. Branjor I don’t think you specificially would do that. But who knows, if you had no option, as the people in Nfld/Labrador do not. We are speaking in generalities, and generally I imagine you like other environmentally conscious people wear shoes made with leather in them somewhere, cremes and lotions and lip gloss that have whale products in them, someone down the street from you using pig insulin, thousands upon thousands of small mammals killed and died, nests left without mommy and poppy, birds of prey (bald eagles) populations devastated because there are no mammals in those honking huge fields that grow our spinach in Ca and have to be motorized tilled. And if there are no birds to eat the insects, and no squirrels to eat the bugs, we’ll be producing more DEET, you bet. I grow weary.

    What is happening on the sealing grounds looks bloody. So does the creation of everything you eat. And if you are not willing to give up your IPod and cell phones and computers (which were made in factories on land which used to be wild — now called Silicone Valley I believe) then you have no right to tell the sealers and fishers of Newfoundland and Labrador to cut it out, it’s hurting your feelings.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 1:37 am
  42. Yeh Heart. It’s the trendoids that populate the environmentalists ranks. Most of them have parents who are securely tenured in high paying university jobs, will inherit estates, drive SUVs, have chalets in the mountains on threatened pristine lakes, and only eat white meat.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 1:39 am
  43. I *am* an environmentalist, have written a book about how to be an urban environmentalist, but I know that when people who think that the bush, or the north, or Newfoundland, or any other wild place where people DO actually live is only a place to go for a 2 week holiday make pronouncements about how the people there should live, nine times out of ten they are making those comments from their secure urban, cultivated land existence. Not listening, like the early (and still some) anthropologists did not, to the people who LIVE there. They don’t just holiday there.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 1:52 am
  44. Pony, I am sorry, but I consider myself an eco feminist and wow you have generalized. True there are trendy environmentalists, but there are also those who want to make sure that the resources of earth are not depleted like say what happened on Easter Island. Nothing left, but some monuments of what used to be a civilization. Not even a tree. Where I live it is the environmentalists and the First Nations people who are making a stand, so I guess I do not get this animosity of yours.

    Posted by rhondda | January 24, 2007, 2:37 am
  45. Hmm – I don’t know what’s in my shoes, I don’t use creams, lotions or lip gloss, someone down the street from me may damn well use pig insulin but I don’t know anything about it – I don’t even know most people on my street. I do not have an iPod, I don’t even know what the things are used for, I just got a cell phone last year for emergencies but I would give it up in a heartbeat, I’ve only used it about 3 or 4 times, and I resisted computers like a mule for years on end until finally getting one in 2001 because I found out I would never be able to get a job without computer skills. I have to admit, I enjoy the computer, but I would give it up in a heartbeat too as I think the internet is a terrible substitute for the women’s coffeehouses and bookstores we used to have and the family activities I remember from the days when we didn’t have computers. And I would give up these things for environmental/ecological reasons too if we all got together and really taught each other survival skills, which I don’t have too many of (one of my main peeves in life). So, Pony, do you have any more ideas about what technology I use and am not willing to give up and what plastic foods I eat? Any more expertise about the Jersey pine barrens, which *are* natural and were not planted? As to the sealers/fishers in Newfoundland and Labrador, I guess they could migrate south to someplace that has something edible growing. The white people did not take their legs away along with their lands and livelihoods. But I guess that is their home and they are attached to it.

    Posted by Branjor | January 24, 2007, 2:58 am
  46. Well heeled urban people, Greenpeace and PETA, who do not live where they are trying to impose choices. Primarily male.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 3:05 am
  47. ***I think of you the way I am, old school radical feminist, vegetarian, nonviolent, creature loving, earth loving. I doubt either of us would wear anything with a pocket for an I-Pod.***

    That’s me, Heart. 🙂

    Posted by Branjor | January 24, 2007, 3:12 am
  48. So women don’t buy coffee in the Northwest?

    Posted by Radfem | January 24, 2007, 4:02 am
  49. No kidding, radfem! I guess women’s bucks don’t spend as well as men’s. More like it, women’s bucks are invisible because women are invisible. But that’s pretty wierd– every single workday morning, I walk into my building to go to work and have to negotiate my way through a gigantic line of people waiting for their lattes in one of the *two* Starbucks in my building, and at least half of the people in line are women. So yeah. What’s up. What demographic are these sexpresso guys after, and why?

    I have some things I want to write about the land, place, care of the earth, greenpeace types, things I’ve learned in my 15 years on this rugged, rural peninsula, things I’ve encountered recently since white people with money have discovered this beautiful place where I live. I will try to write about this tomorrow.

    I feel both you, pony, and you, Branjor.


    Posted by womensspace | January 24, 2007, 6:06 am
  50. And you know Branjor that’s the way I think of you too. I just grew up in a hunting culture, not where it was done for sport, but for food. So I don’t have the same take on hunting or fishing or sealing, for food, and for selling to others, so I can have dental care, or money to buy a sewing machine. That’s how I grew up. I never ate anything but country food until I was near 20.

    We had virtually nothing.

    We lived a lot better than what I see around me. So I think that the people in Newfoundland/Labrador, if let to have their hunting, fishing and sealing rights uninhibited by too much government, or by urban people far away who know nothing about that way of life (but may be mean well) are better off than those kids in Patagonia standing outside the organics food store asking me to sign their petition. Hoo boy were they sorry.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 6:27 am
  51. This is just more proof that we are marching headlong into this: Idiotocracy

    Posted by veravenom | January 24, 2007, 1:03 pm
  52. Yeah. I’m not really attuned to the coffee culture or scene up in that part of the country or down here in the larger cities where it’s popular but the part of that which is growing here, yeah there are mostly women in our zillion starbucks. And we’ve got two on one block and another one sprouting up right next to where I used to live, which unlike the others is a drive-thru. They are in supermarkets too. We also have Coffee Beans and other chains showing up and squeezing the smaller independent ones out.

    I’m not big on coffee though I do drink the ice tea lemonade w/ green enough so that the people at the downtown one remember my name. :p To be honest though, the only time I hang out in coffee places is for meetings that other people ask me to do, because it’s at least more familiar turf so to speak which gives me a bit of an edge right away. And if meetings last several hours, it’s better than a restaurant or another place, or their turf. Though now that I’m on the blacklist, I probably won’t be seeing them as much, lol.

    But here and this may be true elsewhere, it’s mostly women coming in and sitting down with their drinks to talk. Men maybe come and leave. Students are very popular usually bringing in computers(because for a fee, wireless is available) and work.

    I was wondering what if women go through that drive-thru, do they get different people handing out coffee? I’m assuming there isn’t men hanging out at the drive-thru in g-strings or fig leaves right? I doubt it. Though if I saw that early in the morning from a stranger selling coffee, I’d probably pass out in shock. But I think it is exploitive because there are other ways to stand out in the competition although in our society, sex does sell which is more of a statement on our society.

    That area is beautiful, though. If I had money, I’d live there, but then living in a city where the politics are so dirty I feel like I should shower at least twice a day, other places are looking beautiful now. I like to be surrounded by green and here, we’ve screwed up the climate so much we’ve not had our usual rainfall for years and have had days and days of Santa Anas totally out of season, which have a way of putting everyone on edge. I doubt there will be much in the way of new plants this year.

    Posted by Radfem | January 24, 2007, 6:48 pm
  53. I was wondering what if women go through that drive-thru, do they get different people handing out coffee?

    Yeah, I was thinking about that too after your first comment, radfem. Heck no! These are small sexpresso stands, little sole proprietors who buy, like, a small trailer or little closet-size frame building and make a business out of it. Usually, only one person can even work in them at a time.


    Posted by womensspace | January 24, 2007, 7:06 pm
  54. Well RadFem, I guess that leaves Canada. How much corruption do you want? Would you like a little envirmental action with that, to go? How about the weather, or I see you mentioned flora, well, I think you’ll want Nelson, B.C. Close enough to the U.S. border too, if you should ever miss the smog. But if you need a city, one conflicted, replete with racial strife, you’ll want Vancouver. Be prepared to drive everywhere and long for the traffic jams in LA. If you prefer to wear shitkickers and eat beef, go to Calgary.

    Posted by Pony | January 24, 2007, 7:52 pm
  55. Oh, we don’t have the stands yet here. We’re just getting the combo cafes and drivethrus.

    I spent my summers in northern California with the redwoods and ferns and when I feel overwhelmed, I just long for green, I think because I have great memories of those times.

    It’s getting ridiculous here. A councilman wants journalists or anyone arrested for obstruction if they interview witnesses of officer-involved shootings for articles. Of course, they aren’t going to harass the big newspaper reporters who do this. They mailed a letter threatening an 89 year old woman with arrest if she disobeys the city council again. She actually spoke at the city council once giving one of the best histories on abortion law I’ve heard yet.

    I have a sister who lives up near Vancouver, a ferry ride away.

    I’m at the point where I think I want to live in a cabin in the mountains with some cats and goats.

    Posted by Radfem | January 25, 2007, 5:35 am
  56. Are there any examples of coffee places that are affirming for women? Or at least friendly to them or keeping them included in any advertising?

    I’m beat due to being up all night reinstalling my internet software so I’ll need coffee but I think I’ll look at different local places downtown and see what kind of atmosphere they have, and how they are focused and what place they are for women. I’m not keen on Starbucks because they don’t hire from the neighborhoods, just university students, even though they benefited from the redevelopment breaks because they set up shop in areas of low-income families.

    A friend of mine and I talked yesterday about the role coffee plays in our lives(though I’m more of a tea person). For her, it helps get her through the meetings she goes to each day and then raising a family single-handed. We both needed it to get through one contentious one last night(although after reading what I said at it, I think I’ll cut back, lol) so it’s an endurance aid I suppose, including against a corrupt, racist, sexist system at its local level which hits my friend in all those ways because she’s Apache.

    And then today, there’s an article that caffeine makes you smarter too. Hopefully, that is true.

    But it’s a huge market of consumers for sure, but only a relatively small percentage of them are the focus of marketing efforts and advertising.

    Posted by Radfem | January 25, 2007, 6:21 pm
  57. Hey, radfem, there’s a whole story there, about the old woman-only coffee shops, many of them, going back to the 70s, 80s, that have closed their doors, along with hundreds of feminist/lesbian bookstores and lesbian bars, too. There are precious, precious few of these sanctuaries left. 😦

    There’s a woman-owned coffee shop in Seattle that caters to women called “Bad Girls.” I used to go there a lot when I took the ferry, because I passed it every day– a very cool place! Big comfy couches and soft chairs to sit in, feminist gifts, women running the place. I haven’t been there for a while because it’s out of the way now that I take the bus, but here’s an article about it. What’s odd about the article is, there is no mention of the fact that in general, there are NEVER men in “Bad Girls.” I don’t think I’ve ever been there any time when there were men there. It’s a really comfortable place for women and just the way it’s set up, though there aren’t any “woman-only” signs or anything, I think it just isn’t a place men feel like going.


    Posted by womensspace | January 25, 2007, 7:35 pm
  58. Here’s the link.


    Posted by womensspace | January 25, 2007, 7:35 pm
  59. A woman-owned coffeeshop with a feminist library a few blocks from my house just announced it’s closing after seven years because the owner won’t renew their lease. It was one of the several woman-owned businesses in the neighborhood that helped solidify my decision to move there.

    Posted by Sam | January 25, 2007, 8:03 pm
  60. UGH! What bad news, Sam. 😦


    Posted by womensspace | January 25, 2007, 8:48 pm
  61. Just for the record, Sea Shepherd is not run by millionaires – a member of my extended family works there so i get to hear the day-to-day goings on. Also, oddly enough (or maybe not!), the leadership there would probably agree with Pony’s assessment of Greenpeace.

    As for the original post, yeuch. Just for starters, that costume has to be a burn risk when working with near-boiling water. I sometimes work in mobile catering, and prefer not to approach these things without long sleeves and trousers.

    Posted by Nella | January 26, 2007, 3:09 pm
  62. Some environmental organizations do good work, some are posturing hypocrites cutting deals with industry, and some are outright frauds. Wise Use is perhaps the most notorious industry front organization. Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd says he was a co-founder of Greenpeace, but left long ago, not on good terms to put it mildly. I have some issues with Sea Shepherd, but I do appreciate their actions against illegal whaling. Nobody else is doing much of anything about that, besides denouncing it.

    Posted by Aletha | January 27, 2007, 7:27 am
  63. Hey, radfem, there’s a whole story there, about the old woman-only coffee shops, many of them, going back to the 70s, 80s, that have closed their doors, along with hundreds of feminist/lesbian bookstores and lesbian bars, too. There are precious, precious few of these sanctuaries left.

    There are many here in boston. Its not quite so strict as there are some men who come through them but they’re respectful or kicked out lol.

    And some of the lesbian bars are a bit modern… it depends on where you go in the city.

    It’s so funny how much you learn just reading sometimes. There was a pretty good discussion here. I am Boston born and raised and only really know the city. I didn’t even think about many of the things you said here “ipods, computers, eating meat” so on so forth. I only recently bought an ipod myself and I dont see how that is unfriendly to the environment. YES young and learning could someone break it down for me? (nicely)

    My mentor is a vege/fem (we called her that as little girls) She inspires me to give up meat too.

    Posted by Divine Purpose | March 12, 2007, 2:43 am

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