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Pre-2008 Posts

Born Still

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I wanted to join Midwife:  Sage Femme in acknowledging and honoring the journey of the woman above, whose little daughter, Birdie, was born still last March.  She blogged about it, but had to make her blog private because unbelievably, she was attacked by commenters to the point that, before she finally made the blog private, she had to write across the top, “No hurtful comments, please.”   There are no words adequate to even address this level of viciousness.   I just wanted to, again, honor Erin for her courage in telling her own story.

Heart

Discussion

31 thoughts on “Born Still

  1. You know I just cannot as hard as I try comprehend how people can leave unsolicited ugly and vile comments at someone’s blog. I just don’t get it. I have been flirting with the ideal of buying the book “Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to Recognize It and How to Respond” by Patricia Evans and writing an entry on each chapter, or at least an entry each time I see something that may do some good, some real good for women. I have read the book before and it does wonders with combating the power of verbal abuse in a relationship or not. I have worried about sounding too preachy or too pedantic but I think this entry is my final push. That woman could have been public enemy number one, I could have hated every word she has ever written, and I could have been in net wars with her, and I would have never been tempted to leave a vicious comment on her blog after she has suffered so much. To me, it shows just how deep misogyny has infiltrated our culture. One may assume it was a man, but I would not be surprise if it were a woman. Some women hate women in order to curry favor with the menz. Or hate themselves because of being a woman. It is sickening. I honestly believe many women are not capable of seeing their own misogyny. And men are just enjoying the ride on top. This is just sick, sick, sick. Unless a person is some sick sociopath how could they possibly think it would be okay, funny, right, teaching a lesson or whatever to say anything but kindness at a time like this.

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | May 20, 2007, 12:35 am
  2. Poor family.

    How the hell does anyone even begin to justify leaving a nasty comment on a blog discussing the stillbirth of a child?

    Posted by Miranda | May 20, 2007, 2:01 am
  3. She planned a homebirth, and many of the critical commenters were focused on that decision. Never mind the research on homebirth safety, they seem to say, we know it was your fault. Heinous.

    Posted by CJ | May 20, 2007, 4:37 am
  4. Amazing that they could find ways to be mean even about this.

    Kitty – I think blogging ‘Cliff’s notes’ for each chapter of that book is a great idea. When I read it, it was a revelation, and I wished I’d found it years before. I only discovered it because I was specifically combing the Internet for information on verbal abuse. Since then I’ve realized it is sort of a famous book, but I think it’s worth making it more famous.

    Posted by profacero | May 20, 2007, 5:22 am
  5. Yeah, re leaving unsolicited and vile comments, Kitty. That is abuser behavior. It’s like a switch gets flipped in the soul of the abusive person when they encounter someone’s pain, and instead of responding with compassion or empathy, they respond with abuse, everything from punishing a child for hurting herself (“Why weren’t you paying attention!”) to punishing mothers because they suffer as mothers (“You made the choice to have kids!”) to punishing rape victims for being raped (“Why were you there at that hour?!”) Abusers can’t handle feelings of being out of control or being reminded of the fucked-upness of themselves/life/the world when they aren’t prepared for it. They move quickly to punish and silence the person who reminds them which serves to medicate their own out-of-control feelings. You see this all the time online, like the guy who tried to comment last night to an old rape thread here: “Frat house + alcohol + naive virgin = Doh!” Nah, asshole. “Misogynist/rapist + comment = Spam!”

    Kitty and profacero (and everybody), Patricia Evans’ book is a revelation, isn’t it? I’ve bought it so many times through the years to give away. My big frustration over that book is, it really is about the dynamics of male heterosupremacy, not just in abusive relationships but in general. Everybody should read that book!

    CJ, I figured this was about home birth. All of us who birth at home have had to deal with our fears of encountering some “medical professional” who for whatever reason takes our rejection of medicalized/hospitalized birth as an assault and attack on her very identity or person or something. (And one of the worst commenters was a woman, Kitty, supposedly a medical professional who cares for pregnant women!) That is the old abuse paradigm, though: “Why did you plan a home birth/reject hospitals and medicine! It’s all your fault!” Which tidily insulates the abuser from, again, feeling out of control. Abusing vulnerable people is the medication of choice for abusive people, all the way up to heads of state. It’s sick.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 20, 2007, 12:30 pm
  6. How sad. Poor little baby and parents.

    I think it’s awful that anyone would leave abusive comments on this woman’s blog. As though plenty of hospital births weren’t also still. Kitty, it would be a great idea to blog entries on the Patricia Evans book. I think I will buy it.

    Posted by Branjor | May 20, 2007, 1:52 pm
  7. Nah, asshole. “Misogynist/rapist + comment = Spam!”

    Great! A good LOL moment!

    Kitty and profacero (and everybody), Patricia Evans’ book is a revelation, isn’t it? I’ve bought it so many times through the years to give away. My big frustration over that book is, it really is about the dynamics of male heterosupremacy, not just in abusive relationships but in general. Everybody should read that book!

    Evans has recognized your frustration and I think she reconstructs her foreword upon each new printing. Initially due to pressure from the menz complaining that they are abused, she (or maybe I read it somewhere else) had to include a little bit about how anyone could interchange the sexes and the formula would still be beneficial. It is exactly that, Heart, what I noticed, “it really is about the dynamics of male heterosupremacy” and why I think it can be applied to anyone who is willing to read the book. Like you, I have given away a few copies and now find myself without one.

    Branjor,

    I think I will most certainly. I shall buy the book today (online).

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | May 20, 2007, 7:33 pm
  8. I am also saddened and appalled that people could be such assholes. Patriarchy + anonymity of the internet becomes “free license” for abusive jerks to infringe on others’ stories, experiences that these abusers have NO right to denigrate, no right at all. My thoughts and prayers go to Sage Femme and her family at this difficult time.

    Posted by kellichou | May 20, 2007, 7:36 pm
  9. er, I guess the woman’s name is Erin. My mistake!

    Also, is there a way for interested, non-troll individuals to earn an invite to this woman’s blog?

    Posted by kellichou | May 20, 2007, 7:40 pm
  10. Wow. That is just vile. And furthermore, the baby was stillborn. How the hell would her having the baby in a hospital have changed that? It’s not as if the baby died after birth. Do hospitals have time machines that we don’t know about that they could have used to go back in time and find out when the baby died and somehow revive it? It seems to me that the abusive so-called medical practitioners on her blog are using the same logic that racists use whenever somebody of another race commits a crime — “well, I saw on the news that one black person committed a crime, so they must all be criminals!” Except in this case, one stillborn baby who was home-birthed must automatically mean that all homebirths are like that, and most importantly that it was because of the homebirth. People who operate outside of the “mainstream” of society are required to be perfect and have perfect results all the time, and when somebody in our groups fails to be perfect, people will automatically assume that everybody in the group is like that — which of course they don’t assume when one person in the dominant group screws up.

    Posted by mekhit | May 20, 2007, 8:24 pm
  11. Oops, too many italics up above. Imagine that only “stillborn” and “after” are italicized.😛

    Posted by mekhit | May 20, 2007, 8:26 pm
  12. Mekhit, I fixed it. 🙂

    So true re the perfection expected of alternative people and re home v. hospital births, not to mention all the crap that NEVER happens during home births that DOES happen regularly in hospital births: women unnecessary cut (and paying for it for the rest of their lives), overmedicated (ditto, plus their babies pay for it), unnecessary c-sections (ditto), malpractice that results in everything from cerebral palsy to fetal and maternal death.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 20, 2007, 9:56 pm
  13. That poor young woman.

    As for the hospital = safe, homebirth = dangerous paradigm, I have a dear friend who lost her baby girl in a hospital birth, and then went on the have two happy, successful live births at home.

    I hope that Erin finds the love and support and compassion she deserves.

    Posted by brittanials | May 21, 2007, 3:08 am
  14. First of all I want to say that the photo above is just absolutely beautiful. My curiosity compels me to ask if that is Birdie and Birdie’s father in the photo with Erin in the photo? (Even the idea or thought of honoring and remembering a beloved but stillborn child with such a photo is beautiful in and of itself.)

    Next, about the assholes who leave hurtful, hateful comments at blogs, particularly those who intentionally hurt bloggers who are already hurting, Evans’ book and the theories on verbal abusers in relationships surely has some value. (Yes, I’ve read and own a copy, too.) However, there are other dynamics involved when it comes to cyber bullies and hit-and-run cyber flamers. Sociopaths with Internet connections are like kids left alone in candy stores (or, as we say here in the southern US and may more aptly apply here, likes pigs in shit). Those part humans that we know as sociopaths are emotionally bankrupt, possessing only the most base and negative, survival-in-the-wild enabling emotions of anger, jealousy and hatred. They know nothing of emotions such as love, joy, and generosity except for the jealousy that they feel in knowing that we know those emotions and they don’t and they know how to mimic the behaviors of those who feel those emotions in order to appear as real and full humans so that they may live among us.

    The only thing that ever makes a sociopath feel better about himself is making a human or humans feel bad. Being in the presence of someone who feels worse than they do is as close to feeling good as they ever come. Emotionally stomping the shit out of a human IRL runs the risk of the sociopath being hurt in return. Although that risk doesn’t stop them from inflicting pain on humans IRL, in the cyber world, with the anonymity it provides, there’s a whole world of prey (aka real, feeling human beings) for those incomplete, emotionally bankrupt, subhumans to get their predatory fix from with the risk of suffering retaliation being little to none.

    I could go on and on but instead I suggest that anyone who wants to learn more about those other beings and why they do what they do online key “cyber bully” or “cyber sociopaths” into a search engine. As the Internet has grown, so have the number of cyber sociopaths as have the number of pages/sites about them and they damage they can and have caused out here in their new playground. It not only makes for interesting reading but it also makes it easier to blow them and their hateful words off as you would blow off the hateful rants and comments of a deadly, human-hating rabid animal if one were able to leave comments at blogs.

    Posted by CoolAunt | May 21, 2007, 2:38 pm
  15. CoolAunt, yes, I believe that’s the baby’s father there. Home birth is a beautiful thing, even when it is tragic, compared with hospitals, because those who love the mom and baby can grieve with her privately, not surrounded by happy new moms with healthy babies, and all the flowers and balloons and people coming and going, not quizzed by all sorts of professionals and subjected to all sorts of tests, they can hold their baby as long as they want and say goodbye, they can say good bye out in the yard, and plant a tree in the spot they said goodbye, and nourish the tree with the placenta, the midwife will hug them and comfort them in the way only (good) midwives can and do. And yes, they can memorialize the birth with beautiful photos like this.

    Thanks for all that info about sociopaths. I’ve met a few online and they are some dangerous, destructive people.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 21, 2007, 4:27 pm
  16. Next, about the assholes who leave hurtful, hateful comments at blogs, particularly those who intentionally hurt bloggers who are already hurting, Evans’ book and the theories on verbal abusers in relationships surely has some value. (Yes, I’ve read and own a copy, too.) However, there are other dynamics involved when it comes to cyber bullies and hit-and-run cyber flamers. Sociopaths with Internet connections are like kids left alone in candy stores (or, as we say here in the southern US and may more aptly apply here, likes pigs in shit). Those part humans that we know as sociopaths are emotionally bankrupt, possessing only the most base and negative, survival-in-the-wild enabling emotions of anger, jealousy and hatred.

    Since you have read and own a copy of Evan’s book then I think you will understand and appreciate when I point out how you just diminished the validity of combating verbal abuse on the net by diverting the attention from a wide range of possible suspects and causes to sociopaths specifically. Not everyone who engages in said behaviors are sociopaths. By highlighting the behavior of sociopaths, the verbal abuser and everyone else can exempt him(her)self from the accusation and thereby not engage in self-reflection or change, “I’m not a sociopaths, so they are not talking about me, so I can keeping doing what I am doing.” Net verbal abusers can also be products of verbal abuse, –women who are finding other punching bag other than themselves. If the net verbal abuser is dismissed as the sociopath then there is no reason to discuss it. Sociopaths are beyond rehabilitation, so what is the point. However, a trigger word for “but” as in “However, there are other dynamics involved when it comes to cyber bullies and hit-and-run cyber flamers.”) for example is one word that will help the watchful reader to recognize a possible oncoming umbrage especially from men who pretend to be a “nice guy.”

    Sociopaths are more than likely males. I am not interested in the males, the menz. I am interesting in sharing tools with women, tools that will help women learn to combat the verbal abuse that renders paralyzing results. What does a battered wife care about a sociopath? Or an unheard woman who cannot see why she is harassing other women on the net?

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | May 21, 2007, 7:01 pm
  17. Yeah, I hear what you’re saying, Kitty (although a battered wife might be married to a sociopath :/); and particularly when we’re talking about verbal abusers, these people almost NEVER see themselves as abusive and people who haven’t had to deal with a verbal abuser don’t realize how hideous it is.

    On the other hand, never underestimate the power, either, of ONE SOCIOPATH on the internet to turn really good places for women into absolute hell-holes. I am not kidding you! I wouldn’t believe it either unless I’d seen it and been targeted by the sociopath myself. There was a person on the Michfest boards, until that person got banned, who I do believe was and is a sociopath and the trauma that person inflicted on women was unbelievable.

    Bent frickin wieners, so many people on the net!

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 21, 2007, 7:44 pm
  18. Yes Heart by no means do I want to de-emphasize the impact sociopaths have on people, mainly women, including possible sociopathtic battering husbands. I am sorry that you had to experience such a person.

    I guess my concern lies in the possibility of creating a binary value. An occurrence I think is all too common on the net. The either/or, it isn’t this so it’s that or one is more important, deserving of concern than another. Because I believe when this occurrence happens “degrees of” are often overlooked, glossed over. As in the degree in which one is abusive. For example, I think verbally abusive people in public forums are well aware of the fine line, thus, flirt with it, but not cross over. This enables them to be abusive but not to the point that it is picked up on by many, thus avoiding public censuring. Subtle abuse can be just as damaging as overt abuse. Perhaps I am splitting hairs. I just think it is the on-going subtle abuse that can seep into our souls and chip away at our (women) self worth. By all means the messages are everywhere, from t.v. to billboards to the net telling us what we are only good for, and even that has a shelf life.

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | May 21, 2007, 8:08 pm
  19. Yeah, I completely agree, Kitty. Abusive people on the internet can get away with a LOT, by stalking people, following them around, constantly trashing them in a way that only the targeted person and her friends recognizes as serious abuse because the targeted person is aware of what’s happening and others aren’t. And that’s just one of many examples. Your point is definitely well taken by me.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 21, 2007, 8:17 pm
  20. Kitty: Since you have read and own a copy of Evan’s book then I think you will understand and appreciate when I point out how you just diminished the validity of combating verbal abuse on the net by diverting the attention from a wide range of possible suspects and causes to sociopaths specifically. Not everyone who engages in said behaviors are sociopaths.

    To suggest further reading is by no means a diminishment. Calling such suggestions as well as most any disagreement “diminishment,” “countering,” or any of the other buzz words from Evans’ books is, however, a common knee-jerk reaction made by many, many of the (mostly) women who’ve (usually recently) read her book(s).

    If you’ll re-read your copy of any of her books, save the last in which she completely and without apology or explanation contradicts what she’s stated emphatically in all of her previous books, Evans states that verbal abusers know that they’re verbally and emotionally abusing their partners, that the abuse is premeditated, that there is a motive, and that they never feel remorse for the abuse that they inflict. Some may feel bad when they’re called on it but they feel bad about being caught, not about what they’ve done. They completely lack sympathy for their victims because they don’t empathize with their victims. Further, she states that they can not change even if they appear to be willing to change. That is the profile of a sociopath but instead of calling them by that title, she calls them “others” who “power over” or some other dummied down terms that she pulled out of air (I don’t have the book in front of me to confirm “others” but it’s something like that).

    Read up on cyber sociopaths and cyber bullies and you’ll learn that even though the basics of verbal abuse remain the same, the dynamics and damages caused by abusers online are quite different than those of abusive partners.

    Posted by CoolAunt | May 21, 2007, 9:27 pm
  21. I am for anything that restores/enhances Women’s authority and expertise with regard to birthgiving. Home birth is a threat to the fiscal profit-margin of patriarchical medicine, pure and simple.

    I always wonder about the professional background of folks who have vicious things to say about Women who opt for home birth after witnessing the ongoing nastiness that Ilena Rosenthal has gone through because she is an outspoken critic of silicone breast implants. The guys who left all sorts of horrid comments on her site under various assumed identities and eventually tried to sue her for ‘libel’ in an effort to shut her up were doctors (one of whom had a suspended medical license). Fortunately, the two asswipes, named Barrett and Polevoy, were soundly trounced in the California courts, and the SLAPP legislation that we Californians voted for (to keep corporations and their mouthpieces from bringing lawsuits in order to fiscally hurt and shut up their critics) worked exactly the way it was designed to.

    I have to wonder about hidden agendas (and not-so-hidden ones) of commenters who simplistically blame a Woman’s stillbirth on her decision to opt for giving birth at home. As others in this thread pointed out, giving birth in a hospital does not automatically guarantee a healthy outcome for either the mother or the child. I wonder if the bottomfeeders who dished out the mean comments at Erin’s blog are doing so because Women taking back control of their own bodies and the process of birthgiving is an unforgiveable rebellion against the med-corp-patriarchal bottom line?

    I think it might be germaine to ask those who rabidly attack this Woman, ‘Are you perchance doctors?’

    Posted by akkarri | May 21, 2007, 10:56 pm
  22. a common knee-jerk reaction made by many, many of the (mostly) women who’ve (usually recently) read her book(s).
    Thanks for the condescension. It has been years since I have read the book. Actually, I used it in some research. But I am so glad you think any dialogue about it is just knee jerk.

    some other dummied down terms that she pulled out of air
    Yes she would need to dummied it down for us stupid verbally abused women.

    Read up on cyber sociopaths and cyber bullies and you’ll learn that even though the basics of verbal abuse remain the same, the dynamics and damages caused by abusers online are quite different than those of abusive partners.
    No thank you, I don’t take my orders from no one but myself.

    See how language works.

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | May 21, 2007, 11:31 pm
  23. “others” who “power over” or some other dummied down terms that she pulled out of air (I don’t have the book in front of me to confirm “others” but it’s something like that).

    Hey, Cool Aunt, those are not terms Evans pulled out of air– those are feminist terms, i.e., “power over,” “power-to,” “power-with.” If she’s using the term “others” in the sense of verbal abusers “othering” their partners, that’s, again, a feminist concept which makes reference to subject-object relations, the male as the subject, the woman as “other,” “object”, objectified. These are time honored radical feminist concepts having to do with eliminating dominance hierarchies and revisioning power in relationships. One author who writes a lot about these ideas is Marilyn French in her book, Beyond Power: Men, Women and Morals, but there are many other feminists who have written about these ideas.

    You know, the adversarial tone is troubling me in this thread meant to honor the parents of the baby born still. I don’t mean to close down discussion, but I’d hate to have Erin come here thinking to get support and finding anything which might cause her discomfort.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 21, 2007, 11:53 pm
  24. I read Evans’ “Controlling People” too, and although it was interesting I didn’t find it nearly as incisive as the one entitled “The Verbally Abusive Relationship…”.

    Is it then that in this more recent text she is trying to describe psychopaths / sociopaths and does not know how or does not dare name what she is discussing?

    I think, by the way, that these people do know what they are doing and why. I have had some of them explain it to me. Of course, their interest in it is a result of their inhabiting a world in which that is the norm, and it would be hard for them to get out of that world I am sure, but I think many of them do know what they are doing even if they are mentally ill, or personality disordered, or something, and saying they don’t know what they’re doing seems somehow like letting them off the hook to me.

    Posted by profacero | May 22, 2007, 12:03 am
  25. P.S. actually I have a post about verbal … coercion? … that I’d like Kitty to analyze (for some reason I think she’d be good at it) … anyone else is welcome, too … I am not quite satisfied with it, the dialogue in it is supposed to work like a general paradigm (it isn’t the retelling of any single incident), and I’m not sure if it ‘works’ yet. http://profacero.wordpress.com/2007/05/19/on-women-not-being-clear/

    Posted by profacero | May 22, 2007, 12:07 am
  26. Yes Heart you are right. I see that picture every time I click on here and my heart breaks. I guess in a removed-removed way we are supporting Erin by trying to defuse the people who abuse women, but, it does not appear so at first glance, which is the type of support that is most beneficial when so much pain has been inflicted.
    So I will stop for now.

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | May 22, 2007, 12:22 am
  27. Akkarri raises an interesting question. Stephen Barrett is a quackbuster notorious for making trouble for anyone who dares challenge medical orthodoxy. He used to be quite influential, but has suffered a number of losses in the courts lately, so his credibility is not what it used to be. It would not surprise me if he or his cronies were among those dishing out this abuse. They certainly are no friends of midwives.

    Posted by Aletha | May 22, 2007, 5:43 am
  28. Look at this picture – a woman cradling her dead child. Yet some people attack her for choosing not to have a hospital birth. My heart is sickened.
    I hope this woman and her partner eventually find some sense of normalcy. I don’t know if I could. I send them my love.

    Posted by sparklematrix | May 22, 2007, 7:29 pm
  29. They do not see that the sanctity of life includes the lives of the mother (the parents) and the child. If one would stop and think before they engage their pious mealymouth this grieving mother could and would benefit from the compassion. Sad. People as those commenting so crudely are oblivious to their own disturbed mind issues.

    Posted by thepoetryman | May 25, 2007, 3:00 am
  30. I THINK THAT IT IS VERY SAD THAT PEOPLE WOULD ATTACK HER FOR THE BABY BEING STILLBORN. MY PARENTS LOST THEIR FIRST BABY GIRL IN 1979. SHE WAS STILLBORN. SHE WOULD BE SIX YEARS OLDER THAN ME HAD SHE LIVED. EVEN THOUGH I NEVER KNEW MY SISTER, MY HEART STILL ACHES FOR MY PARENTS AND FOR MY SISTER.
    I DON’T KNOW IF ANYBODY HAS EVER HEARD OF AN ORGANZATION CALLED “NOW I LAY ME DOWN TO SLEEP”. THEY TAKE PICTURES OF BABIES THAT DO NOT LIVE. MY PARENTS CHOSE NOT TO SEE MY SISTER WHEN SHE WAS BORN BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE HARDER TO LET HER GO. THEY KICK THEIR SELVES IN THE BUTT EVERYDAY FOR THIS. I HAVE ALREADY TOLD MY HUSBAND THAT IF I EVER LOST A BABY THAT I WOULD CONTACT THE “NILMDTS” TO TAKE PICTURES OF MY BABY. HE DOESN’T AGREE WITH ME BUT I DON’T WANT TO GO ON FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE WONDERING WHAT MY BABY LOOKED LIKE.

    Posted by AMANDA | May 20, 2008, 10:46 am
  31. I haven’t read the blog but honestly nothing in this world would surprise me in regards to abusive comments, esp directed towards those in pain,

    but I did want to add here, its not just women who choose homebirth that get the abuse in this society,

    its hundreds of teen moms, who have given births to stillborns that not only get abused verbally,

    they get arrested and charged with neglect. Poor women too, even if they have their children in hospitals, to have a stillborn child opens the door to investigation, probing, abuse from the system and tragically,

    blame.

    And so many lives are destroyed because of this and this IS one of those issues that we don’t see discussed but it happens every day in this country. And its often times the result of lack of prenatal care, women having children at far too young of ages, etc.,

    but rather than that being the focus, its always the blame placed on the woman and there are women in prison, for having given birth to a stillborn child that they did NOT cause, meaning no drugs, no smoking, etc.,

    but because they were poor or homeless or teens, they are charged with child abuse.

    And its not just by men, its by women, and the hate directed towards these mothers is fierce and ugly. At least once a year, I see something on the news in my state alone, about a baby found in a dumpster or by a hospital that was born stillborn,

    and yet, the mother is charged with abuse. No one stops to ask, if the baby was born stillborn, its always, the mother killed the baby,

    especially teen mothers and I have to seriously question that because I would think a lot of the time it is a situation where the mother, with no prenatal care, no support, fear of going anywhere for help, etc., and gives birth then, what do they do then?

    Its not like they can go anywhere because it doesn’t matter if they are completely innocent of doing any harm, they will be penalized as if they were the worst child abusers out there and everyone is pretty much silent about this,

    society turns on these mothers and rends them to pieces, so I wouldn’t say its just sociopath but a deep seated hatred for poor women, teen mothers, single mothers and women who choose to have control over their births and so forth,

    AND its not just from neo-cons/chauvinists that they get this abusive hate from, its from a lot of the neo-liberals too,

    and the media demonizes these women and I can just assure you that we don’t hear all the facts, just the Prejudice attributions and the tragedy too is that we have the means to give prenatal care and support to every mother out there,

    but we don’t.

    The sociopath abuse we see directed towards this woman has a lot to do with the sociopath hate and abuse directed towards children in general, against women who Have children outside of the ‘mainstream hetero marriage Christian-Judeo context’,

    if I put that right…

    but also, women who have had children outside of the context of some ‘feminists’ expectations on women, in that I’m referring to the ‘womb hate’ attitudes we see or the, ‘why didn’t you get an abortion rather than overpopulating and costing tax payers and etc etc etc., type of hate we see,

    [and YES that hate is out there, I dealt with it being single mother not married/pregnant so I know whence I speak on this, and in fact, I got far more abuse from the pro-abortionists for choosing to Have/Keep my child than I ever did from the Right wing and Pro-Lifers and for that, I won’t forgive, I truly wont’, I still carry those scars and they are very deep, and I’m NOT the only one, for women of color, its even worse, that contempt they get because they choose to have/keep their children],

    and then god forbid if that baby is born stillborn, then its like this whole total reverse mentality,

    then its this, you horrible mother and how could you do this, this and this, etc., or What did you do to contribute to this,

    from the system, from the chauvinists and yes, from the ones who would have no problem if you had of aborted six months prior…

    I can’t even begin to understand or explain the hypocrisy except it has to be this type of womb hatred against women and I seriously,

    don’t think the interests of the ‘child’ are on these people’s hearts [the abusers that is], no,

    its just their ‘excuse’ to attack and verbally abuse women who they see as deviants, undesirables, etc., and its almost always,

    steeping in racism, class and prejudices.

    Proof: If we in this nation, put our money where are mouth is, in regards to Pro-Children and Pro-Choice,

    we’d have a prenatal and support system for EVERY WOMAN that Respected Mother’s/women’s control over their bodies and Respected Mother’s/womens’ choices and we Respected children and the value of children,

    the horrid verbal abuse directed towards this couple, this woman, is not just sociopath from a few ugly spirited people,

    no,

    its the Mirror, of what is so wrong with this country where infants/children and the value of infants/children and mothers is concerned…where Priorities are placed [which are screwed up] and,

    the Mirror of all the reasons mothers-women are hated, especially those mothers, who deviate from the ‘norm’ so to speak.

    [whether its from right wing norms or left wing norms/expectations, racism and classism and women who their crime in society’s eyes is, that they had sex and Then, they had a child, and if the child was stillborn, then thats more reason for the Haters to vilify her, the mother].

    I concur with the women who want to have photos taken, i would, these are their children, they are precious, and it is heartbreaking,

    my heart goes out to this couple, and in times like this, the loss of a child,

    I don’t think there are any words really, all I can give is heart-hugs to all the women out there who have lost a child, and prayers

    another thing too, a lot of the hate that is directed, has a lot to do too with the Western fear of death and this mentality that death is something that can be controlled,

    when people see photos of stillborn children, they [not all of them but some] react in anger because they are afraid,

    afraid to see mortality and that, we don’t have that control over life and death, the ‘illusion’ is that if babies are born in hospitals that they don’t die,

    [which I think is the fault of the medical establishment and their creating this medicine is God Myth],

    children/infants dying before birth happens, and we don’t always know the reasons why, same goes for children who die in their sleep,

    it Happens, its that part of life that Hurts, it Hurts because there is no explanation really, people want to place blame, because people have a hard time facing that death just happens,

    to children, not just to the old,

    and because of this people not only fear but they hide grief…part of accepting power over birthing is also, accepting letting go, and that we don’t have control over everything and that, yes, sometimes death happens…

    its not fair, its cruel, but it happens,

    and its not,

    the mother’s

    fault.

    prayers for and Hugs and Comfort heart-sent to this couple, to this mother, and to their beautiful child😥

    Posted by Tasha | May 20, 2008, 2:49 pm

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