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Pre-2008 Posts

What Some Call “Valor”

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Heart

Discussion

21 thoughts on “What Some Call “Valor”

  1. What a sappy picture.

    Posted by Branjor | June 5, 2007, 6:01 pm
  2. I think the title is sappy, but I think the photo itself is horrifying and devastating. 😦

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | June 5, 2007, 6:15 pm
  3. I especially like the rhetoric, “they died for our freedom” or whatever. I do not think whomever we are currently killing was enslaving us. More like we are doing the invading, oppressing, colonizing, pimping, exploiting, utilizing,…….

    The word freedom would not exist without the word enslavement.

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | June 5, 2007, 6:16 pm
  4. horrifying and devastating.

    Yes it is. When I go to military hospitals and clinics, you would not believe the gratitude I see and hear from stumpees, as if the military is doing them a favor for giving them half-ass medical care. Trust me when I say it is half-ass. I may even be so bold to call it one-quarter-ass.

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | June 5, 2007, 6:18 pm
  5. what a powerful image. at first i thought it was just another army-propaganda-type-picture, then i noticed the prosthesis and my heart just dropped.

    seems like such a tragic, stupid, awful waste.

    Posted by ladoctorita | June 5, 2007, 6:21 pm
  6. Damned war.

    Posted by Miranda | June 5, 2007, 8:24 pm
  7. Its something isn’t it, how the Male Lords regardless of which side they are one, those Dogs of WAR,

    all have their shrines and posters,
    of

    MARTYRDOM…

    just that in USA they call it Valor? In Political Islam they call it Martyrs for Jihad,
    in political revolutions they call it Fallen Comrades for Class Struggle or
    in nationalism the call it Brothers Who Died for Brothers,

    that whole FRATERNITY BULLSHIT.

    [no i don’t hate men, I HATE WHAT THEY STAND FOR THOUGH]

    and the VALOR AND THE MARTYRS AND THE COMRADES AND THE BROTHERS,

    RAPE THEIR WOMYN, RAPE THE ENEMIES WOMYN, RAPE THE WOMYN FIGHTING BY THEM SIDE BY SIDE,

    YET WE STILL SEE WOMYN IN THE WORLD,

    OH I’LL STRAP ON A BOMB TO MY SON, I SO PROUD HE’S A MARTYR
    OH I’LL SEND MY SON OFF TO WAR CUZZ I SO PROUD HE’S FIGHTING FOR THE FLAG
    OH I’LL SEND MY SON TO DIE FOR THE REVOLUTION HE’S FIGHTING AGAINST THE IMPERIALISTS
    OH I’LL SEND MY SON TO DIE FOR THE STRUGGLE HE’S FIGHTING FOR THE RACE….

    SAME OLE SHIT…

    JUST DIFFERENT UNIFORM.

    Tasha

    Posted by Tasha | June 5, 2007, 10:38 pm
  8. I remember seeing this interview on TV with this guy who fought against his own son in some ultimate fighting “Toughman” contest. His son being manly enough to beat the snot out of him brought tears to his eyes; it was the best moment of his life.

    Who says the patriarchy says men can’t cry?

    Posted by Rich | June 6, 2007, 2:57 am
  9. Who says the patriarchy says men can’t cry?

    It’s such a sweet moment in a father’s life when he realizes that his son could beat him to death.

    Posted by gingermiss | June 7, 2007, 3:26 am
  10. I hope the comments on this thread are not intended to mock this young man, though that sadly seems to be the case. Whether one agrees with America’s involvement in the Middle East or not, this young man deserves respect considering he literally sacraficed his left arm to protect your right treat him in such a sarcastic manner.

    Posted by Toy Soldier | June 7, 2007, 5:43 am
  11. the old man reminds me of a Korean war veteran I knew. The tattoos on the arm. Both don’t really look like they are out for valor, just sad that they live in a world where both have to go throug similar experiences. such destroying experiences.

    Posted by Jokerine | June 7, 2007, 11:12 am
  12. Toy Soldier, I don’t think the intent of anyone here is to mock the young man who has lost his arm.

    I completely understand that this young man believed he was doing the right thing by defending his country, as his grandfather, hugging him in tears, also did. I think both believe it is a man’s duty to sacrifice his life, if it comes to that, and to take the lives of others, if it comes to that, for his country. Although I cannot endorse war or violence of any kind, and although I cannot find any justifications for war which amount to more than “Might makes right,” I can respect the courage of those who, because they really do believe they are doing what is right, risk their lives and give their lives. My father is an army veteran of World War II. I have a stepson scheduled to ship out to Iraq if he’s not lucky, Kuwait if he is luckier, for a fourth tour of duty soon. I have a niece who served honorably in the Navy on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln in the Gulf (and who was raped there by two of the soldiers serving alongside her). So no, I would not mock the intentions or courage of those who enlist or serve in the military.

    At the same time, I cannot tell you how deeply I believe that the making of war is immoral and unjust, and how deeply I believe that sending men off to die is immoral and unjust. It is wrong to raise boys believing that real men are willing to kill, willing to hurt people, willing to destroy homes, infrastructures, families, that this is an honorable and “valorous” thing. Generations of soldiers dying, suffering, killing, being maimed in war isn’t “Generations of Valor.” It is generations of violence in the name of nationalism, and too often, imperialism, colonialism and fundamentalist religion. If there is anything to mock –and to me, mocking this photo would not be appropriate– it is calling killing, bombing, sacrificing one’s life at the command of immoral leaders and murderous governments, “valour.” I want a world in which boys do not grow up believing their lives are worth so little they should be thrilled to give them up because George Bush says so.

    I do not believe any serviceman since World War II has even begun to sacrifice his body parts or life for my human and civil rights. The Korean people? No threat to my right to speak. The Vietnamese/Thai/Cambodian/Laotian people? No threat to my right to speak. The Afghan people? No threat. The Iraqi people? No threat. And neither were any of the bogus, invented “enemies to my right to speak,” my actual enemies — not the so called “communists,” not the “Russians,” not Osama bin Laden, not Saddam. The greatest current threat to my right to freedom of speech is my own government. This has always been so for disenfranchised and oppressed peoples and those colonized by the U.S.

    Hitler was sure enough a threat to my right to freedom of speech. But even then, to send troops to kill, bomb, engage in mayhem on an international scale? Completely and totally wrong. Even though I understand the mindset of those who engaged in it believing it was right. It is this mindset, most of all, that I aim to challenge.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | June 7, 2007, 3:54 pm
  13. this young man deserves respect considering he literally sacraficed his left arm to protect your right treat him in such a sarcastic manner.

    This is a fucking LIE!

    He did not lose his arm to protect my right to treat him in a sarcastic manner. He lost his arm to protect Americans greed, Americans desire to invade and steal natural resources, Bush’s agenda, not the man I voted for, Bush’s pockets, NOT MY POCKETS!

    No one from Iraq was in America trying to shut up America’s sarcasm.

    Get the PROPAGANDA straight if you want to try and shame someone.

    Iraq did not run into the twin towers.

    I’m a veteran! I lived the lie, it is ALL A LIE!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | June 7, 2007, 4:13 pm
  14. We can show RESPECT

    WHEN WE STOP GIVING GLORY TO WAR

    PERIOD.

    THIS PHOTO IS NOTHING BUT THE ‘LURE’ TO YOUNG MEN THAT ITS A GOOD THING

    TO LOSE AN ARM

    WHICH PERPETUATES THE GLORY OF WAR.

    AND HOW IS THAT RESPECT FOR THIS MAN OR FOR ANY

    VETERAN?

    IT ISN’T,

    PERIOD.

    SO NO, I WON’T GLORIFY WAR, YOU WANT TO SHOW RESPECT,

    YOU START BY SAYING

    NO MORE TO WAR POSTERS
    WAR PROPAGANDA
    AND SELLING THE LIES,

    THE ‘INTENT’ OF THIS POSTER IS NOT TO PRAISE THIS MAN’S SACRIFICE FOR FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM,

    ITS TO PRAISE THE LINEAGE OF MILITARY,

    MILITARIZATION.

    WE SHOW RESPECT FOR THIS MAN AND FOR THE MILLIONS OF MEN AND WOMYN I MIGHT ADD,

    BY TELLING THE TRUTH AND WORKING TO END THE CAUSES OF WAR,

    SO WE DON’T HAVE MEN AND WOMYN LOSING LIMBS AND LIFE AND CIVILIANS LOSING LIMBS AND LIFE AND RAPES AND ALL THE GARBAGE THAT COMES WITH WAR, AND THAT WILL LEAVE THE EFFECTS FOR GENERATIONS TO COME AND WILL ONLY PRODUCE MORE WARS…

    WWII, EXTENSION OFF OF WWI, WHICH WAS ROBBER BARRON IMPERIAL ‘GREED’,

    KOREA, EXTENSION OFF OF WWII, THE ALLOWING STALIN TO TAKE WHAT HE WANTED

    VIETNAM, EXTENSION OFF OF KOREA,

    IRAQ, EXTENSION OFF OF OIL/AND THE BALKANIZATION WHICH GOES BACK PRIOR TO WWI, FOR GREED, OIL

    NEED I GO ON…

    SO CONFRONTING THE USE OF PROPAGANDA WHICH IS SO USED TO THE MOST POOR OF AMERIKKKAN SOCIETY, ON LATINO TELEVISION AND SHOWS THAT THEY KNOW THE ‘POOR’ MOSTLY WATCH,

    TO USE THE POOR AS FODDER,

    WHILE THE RICH GET RICHER…

    IS NOT DEMEANING TO THIS MAN…ITS TRYING TO SAVE MORE MEN AND WOMYN FROM BECOMING LIKE HIM…THIS MAN WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH HIS LOSS FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE,

    WHILE MOST FORGET.

    WANT TO SHOW RESPECT, SHOW THE TRUTH, SHOW THE UGLINESS OF WAR, AND STOP SHOWERING IT WITH BEAUTY AND NICE PHOTOS AND THIS MACHO CRAP.

    THATS HOW YOU SHOW RESPECT

    SIR/MADAM

    TASHA

    Posted by Tasha | June 7, 2007, 5:09 pm
  15. SORRY BUT I’M ON A ROLL, I MAY HAVE LOST RESPECT FOR THE FAR LEFT,

    BUT I DAMN SURE STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH THEM WHEN IT COMES TO CONFRONTING THE LIES OF US IMPERIALISM AND CAPITALISM

    THIS POSTER DOES ‘NOTHING’ TO SHOW RESPECT FOR THE MILLIONS OF VETERANS,

    NOT WHEN,

    THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF VETERANS RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, IN AMERIKKKA, HOMELESS, LIVING ON THE STREETS AND I KNOW MANY OF THEM AND HAVE SHARED MEALS WITH THEM IN THE SHELTERS AND DAMN RIGHT I WILL GET VERY MILITANT IN ADDRESSING THIS,

    BROKEN MEN AND WOMYN WHO YES, FOUGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM, WHO BELIEVED THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM FOR A GOVERNMENT WHO NINE OUT OF TEN TIMES HAS LAID IN BED AND PROPPED UP VIA CAPITALISM AND BANKING THE VERY DESPOTS WE HAVE TO EVENTUALLY GO TO WAR AGAINST,

    SADDAMN, ASSISTED BY US GOVERNMENT/CIA
    OSAMA, ASSISTED BY US GOVERNMENT/CIA
    HITLER, WINKED WINKED AT BY US ROBBER BARONS, FORD RING A BELL
    WWI, ROBBER BARONS J.P. MORGAN, BRITAIN, GERMANY…

    SUHARTO, USA ASSISTED INDONESIA, FORD DRANK THE WINE OVER THE BLOOD OF EAST TIMORESE WHO WERE BEING SLAUGHTERED,

    PINOCHE, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON

    MEANWHILE WE HAVE VETERANS, ALWAYS HAVE,
    WHO GET INADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE IF THE GET IT AT ALL
    VETERANS WHOSE MOTHERS TODAY HAVE TO HAVE BAKE SALES TO PAY FOR THE ARMOR AS THE US GOV IS TOO CHEAP, BUT THEY’LL SURE PAY THE CORPORATIONS TO BUILD MORE BOMBS AND TRADE ARMS WITH GOV LIKE CHINA,

    OH HOW SOON WE FORGET THE IRAN-CONTRA AFFAIR…HOW SOON WE FORGET…HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE SHIT WAR OUR MEN AND WOMYN ARE DYING IN TODAY

    USA IS THE NUMBER ONE AID GIVER TO THE MILITARISTIC STATE OF ISRAEL, AND EGYPT IS THE SECOND LARGEST RECEIPIENT OF US AID, HOME OF THE HAMAS…DOESN’T TAKE A GENIUS TO FIGURE IT OUT

    MEANWHILE, WE HAVE VETERANS DYING FROM ALL SORTS OF ‘TESTING’ AND NAPALM AND BIO WARFARE AND HOOKED ON METH THAT IS USED, TO KEEP SOLDIERS UP ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT SO THEY CAN FIGHT MORE…

    MEANWHILE WE HAVE AN INCREASE IN WOMYN HOMELESS VETS WHO CANNOT GET TREATMENT NOT ONLY FOR PTSD BUT RTS, AND STILL THE MILITARY/STATE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE IS DENYING WOMYN VETS BIRTH CONTROL ACCESS AFTER RAPE AND STILL PROMOTING THE MEN WHO RAPE, THAT COMMAND RAPE AS THEY TERM IT, WHILE THE CASES OF BROKEN WOMYN AND MEN FROM COMMAND RAPE KEEP INCREASING, WITH NO JUSTICE

    MEANWHILE WE HAVE VETS WHO CAN BARELY SURVIVE ON THE SSI AND VETERANS PAY, AND THESE ARE WWII VETS…

    A POSTER DOES NO JUSTICE, FOR THE VETERANS, IT SERVES THE PURPOSE OF GLORY TO THE US GOVERNMENT WHO TAKES A HUGE ROLE IN ASSISTING IN THESE WARS…

    AND THEY LIVE COMFORTABLY, WHILE THE MEN AND WOMYN WHO FIGHT AND DIE AND SUFFER,

    MANY OF THEM HAVE TO BEG THE GOVERNMENT TO EVEN GET WHATS RIGHTLY ENTITLED TO THEM…

    SHOW POSTERS ON THAT. SHOW POSTERS ON THE BETRAYAL TO OUR VETERANS BY OUR VERY OWN GOVERNMENT,

    THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE, NO EXCUSE, FOR VETERANS FROM WARS TO BE LIVING AND SLEEPING IN PARKS,

    WHO GET MEDICAL AND MENTAL HELP BENEFITS CUT

    WHO HAVE TO FIGHT TO GET HOUSING BENEFITS AND RE-EDUCATION OR SKILLS TO FIT INTO SOCIETY AGAIN AFTER THE TRAUMA AND HELL OF WAR

    WHOSE FAMILIES IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, MANY OF THEM ARE LIVING IN POVERTY

    CITIZENS OF AMERICA HAVE A DUTY TO DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY FROM THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, THE ‘WE THE PEOPLE’ FOR THE WAR CRIMES, FOR THE LIES, FOR THE BETRAYALS, AND FOR JUSTICE, FOR EVERY VETERAN WHO HAS FOUGHT AND GIVEN THEIR LIVES,

    AND WE DON’T DO THAT BY BUYING INTO THE PROPAGANDA,

    WE DO THAT BY INSISTING, NO EXCUSES, THAT VETERANS ARE TAKING CARE OF

    FIRST.

    NOT THE BANKS, NOT THE CORPORATIONS, NOT THE FOREIGN AID THAT IS FUELING THE DEMI GODS AND DESPOTS AND TYRANNICAL BEASTS WHO WILL TURN LATER AND REND OUR MEN AND WOMYN TO PIECES AS WELL AS THEIR OWN CITIZENS.

    I DEDICATE THIS POST,

    TO SHARON, WHO LAID THE AMERICAN FLAG THAT WAS HER HUSBANDS, ON MY LAP IN 2001, WITH HIS HAT AND STAR,

    HER HUSBAND WHO DIED A HORRIBLE SLOW DEATH FROM CANCER FROM AGENT ORANGE

    AND WHO COULD NOT GET COMPENSATION FROM THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, NO MATTER HOW MANY LETTERS WERE WRITTEN [AND SHE WROTE, EVERY SINGLE SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN/WOMAN] AND COURT CASES…

    SHE WATCHED HER HUSBAND DIE, IN EXCRUITATING PAIN, FROM BRAIN CANCER, BONE CANCER, CANCER…

    AND SHE GOT, NO JUSTICE,

    NEITHER DID HE.

    THAT WAS THE DAY, I LEARNED WHAT THE SACRIFICE FOR FREEDOM WAS…

    AND NOT FROM SOME POSTER THAT PROPS UP THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT’S LIES.

    TASHA

    Posted by Tasha | June 7, 2007, 5:41 pm
  16. Not to mention a Veterans Administration (VA) who systematically treats a veteran as an enemy, as someone who is only out to increase his or her benefits, even though that increase only possibly brings the proposed benefits to a fitting level to begin with. From the moment that veteran fills out a claim he or she is met with suspicion, insurmountable paperwork, a security guard who will not allow said veteran on the premise for his or her appointment because he or she does not have a veteran identification card, however, veteran identification cards are only given at those premises, then met by slothful and negligent employees (most who are veterans themselves who keep secrets about how to actually get benefits to themselves in fear of others getting benefits and lessening the benefits for the few), then to be met by second rate physicians who could not pay their malpractice insurance or could not cut it in private practice so they take on a veteran gig, yet expects to roll in late and leave early, never wanting to obligate to anything diagnosed and washes his hands of any and all misdiagnosis. Then the whole system has the nerve to act as if they are ranked as if still in the military and thus treats each veteran accordingly, so if you were shit on as an enlisted while serving you get shit on as an enlisted while trying to get veteran services.

    Rah rah rah rah RAH. Whoya!

    Posted by E. K.(Kitty) Glendower | June 7, 2007, 6:31 pm
  17. Heart, please delete Toy Soldier’s “homepage” link. No reason to allow him to drive up his google rank to his men’s rights page just because you were able to out debate his “we all owe some brave young man in uniform” polemic.

    Posted by Rich | June 7, 2007, 6:47 pm
  18. Kitty, is it o.k. if I call you Kitty, or E.K.?

    thats just injustice to the core, and yea i’ve seen it, thats one thing about being homeless, you meet so many Veterans, and i’ve never forgotten and i still see many of the Veterans who i became friends with still sleeping in the Civic Center park, and the police harass them all the time…Disabled Veterans, Veterans with severe PTSD, there is a saying on the streets that broken womyn with PTSD from abuse, rape, prostitution, etc., have a special connection to the Vets because they understand, on a very very deep level, what human beings are capable of and how difficult it is, to live in the ‘surreal’ life when you know, the reality, that lies underneath…

    and you don’t get beyond that…you may heal to a point but you never get back to that place where, life is like this set way..hard to put in words here…i used to play cards, poker and rummy with three Vets every day, who fought in the later years of Vietnam, two of them lost majority of their teeth, from lack of dental care…as did I [yea i had to get dentures when i was in my thirties, from the years of malnutrition living on food banks, couldn’t qualify for food stamps as i was working, but way way below poverty line, but not ‘low enough’, as single parent of two, so my teeth slowly rotted, chipped and the clinics would only ‘pull’ them and thats what they did, pull, pull and pull…i overdosed on tynlenol for the pain once, now i can’t take tynlenol, risk of liver damage…but anyway [also why i didn’t reply to the post here on dental…i still need the bottom dentures, but the kids come first…but that was just too painful and oh, that is a nice clinic btw, i had my teeth pulled in a clinic that was like a beef packing plant, blood all over the floor]
    [warning: war trigger-Vietnam, two sentences, brace yourself]
    but yea, i still remember Charles and David, and they would talk to me about Napalm and how it sucks up the oxygen and they would tell me the directions of the helicopters when they would pass over, like from the news copters or the hospital copters, as we lived in the deep pocket of the poverty village in downtown…David’s girlfriend, was hooked on herion, she was a Nurse in Vietnam…so yea, it just gets my blood boiling…but there was something else about this poster that really irks me and its related to a couple of things that have bothered me deeply, this past week…and i wrote about it on my blog so i’m putting it here…
    Tasha
    Regarding the poster and how it triggered that ‘class warfare’ rage in me, once more…

    actually, though, its been sort of ‘rumbling in the pits of my blood’ for a couple of days now…when i go out to look at some of these blogs the class difference is brutally apparent, even on some of the ‘healing from rape sites/blogs’ i go to,

    the brutal truth of the horror of poverty, of which i am still in, have always been, except maybe for two ‘brief’ times in my life, and i do mean ‘brief’, look me in the face and mock,

    poverty mocks, and last night i was up all night, twisting over the truth of poverty in my life and in the lives of millions. Especially womyn. I’m a minority, a poor or low income white woman who does not ‘fit’ into the mainstream ‘white’ capitalist middle class to well to do society in Amerikkka,

    yet we are still lumped in with the ‘priviledge white set’ and that includes in feminism too. So, we are cast aside or more like, treated as if we have some social ‘leprosy’ from both whites and people of color, including womyn and including feminists. We do and can fit in with the far left, anti-capitalist lot, but there we face the marginalization that come from being the ‘subjugated woman class’ and like in feminism, white womyn are sort of at the low strata confronting priviledge there as well, racism will always take precedence over sexism, simply because the mainstream labor movement is white men, and men of color…though there is a continued ‘subtle’ racism, in some segments of the far left, there tends to be more solidarity and working together among male comrades in confronting capitalism which thrives on racism, than there is with male comrades regardless of race, confronting their own sexism.

    Nethertheless, the low income woman, regardless of race, will find herself, in the midst of the bourgeousie womyn, even the ones she is in soidarity with as far as fighting patriarchy, she will find herself at odds when it comes to the issue of ‘class’ and ‘race’, but ‘class’ especially.

    This has become more apparent to me when i browse through the various feminists sites and i can tell, by the photos of the homes, discussions on friends and get togethers and weddings and buying homes and so forth that i am from a world that is so contrary, to the world they live in…

    and there is this chasm, this separation, and its Then that i can deeply relate, to the womyn of color who for the majority, live in poverty and who have suffered racism that is not only personal but systematical, not just by whites, but by the ‘priviledged and rich or well to do whites’ and that includes middle class…

    Look, when you have African Americans and Latinas that live in squalor, that can not get the same paying jobs and those jobs are often the low paying ones that they will give white womyn, if the bosses have a choice and they do…because thats one of the ‘clever’ things the racists did, they hid under the ‘woman as a minority’ when Affirmative Action requirements had to be met…don’t want to hire a Black or a Mexican, you hire a White Woman…i saw this shit all the time in the South. and it goes on all over this country….

    go to any city, and you will see, the racial segregration by, ‘economics’ Especially in Rural Areas. Its just blatantly there…African American, Latinos and Asian Americans and Native Indians mind you, will almost always live in the poorer districts with the low tax base schools and the hospitals twenty miles away and the near by toxic dump sites of industries and the police brutality, etc etc etc

    this is still, a daily reality for the majority of the communities of people of color. This is not some thing of the past, it still goes on in Amerikkka today.

    So, yea, I can relate, well for one I live and have lived in those districts with people of color as a poor white and two, though not based on ‘skin color’ i have confronted the demonization and yes, discrimination by other whites for being what society calls, poor white trash.

    But i haven’t, had to walk outside, and fear harassment due to my skin color and only my skin color…That, That is a reality that no matter how poor a white woman might be, she’ll never truly grasp, unless of course she moves to lets say India and is the only white woman and is then targeted for being white…but even then, more than likely, she’ll be targeted for her Nationalism, be it Amerikkkan or British or European or Russian,

    not because she is ‘white’.

    anyhow [this is going to be a long post btw but well worth it so hang in there] there were several things that angered me about this poster, one the whole ‘generations of valor’ thing which simply glorifies militarization and all the lies that come with it, but two, this poster does not represent the majority of soldiers, male and female, in the US military today, who are losing limb, life, getting raped, being traumatized by not just war but by a hieararchial structure within the military itself,

    one that is based on, you guessed it, RACE AND CLASS and GENDER, BUT ALWAYS BY RACE FIRST.

    You won’t see US propaganda posters showing the many Blacks or Mexicans who have lost limbs, oh hell no, no it has to be a White Man, that is shown as the one with Valor.

    It amazes me at the Ignorance still, in Amerikkka about the history of the US military and the treatment and sometimes ‘deliberate use of people of color or immigrants as fodder on suicide missions] and the reality of the thousands of people of color and their communities who have served in the forces and who have paid dearly, and yet, didn’t get the respect, the honor, or the compensation, in fact, they faced the same discriminations in this country that they fought against, when they came back home,

    and they still do. This btw does not give a free pass to the people of color who have also, committed war crimes, rapes, etc…just thought I’d throw that in there…I see that sometimes, white people literally ‘excusing’ crimes though they are minority, true in comparison of history, but crimes and yes, racism by people of color in some fake ass kiss ass oh we are against racism and blah blah blah,

    look, to be against racism means you treat people of color as human beings, not as some special ‘being’ or ‘freak’ that you treat ‘differently’ than you would, a white person. If anything that is just as insulting and maybe more…and i see liberals and yes, even feminists do this shit all the time and i’m like, you are so full of shit…

    you know and the thing is, people of color [and again that term, is annoying but its easier than listing every single ethnicity here, so i’ll use it, but the term its almost like, like saying, oh these people of ‘color’ who are like so different and freaky, i think it still is racist, not to deny the difference in skin color but you know we don’t classify by saying oh those blonde womyn or those brunette kids…but then, we haven’t had a system of slavery based solely on skin color and ethnicity either, but still]

    anyway, off subject thee, but people of color know this too, and i think, they probably go to each other and just shrug their heads and scoff because people of color, like poor white people, can see through the bullshit, you know…

    they can also see racism that we, white people can’t see, why its important to really pay attention because racism, even if you think you aren’t racist, is sooooo engrained in us, on a subconscious level and that includes in people of color to, its not justs some ‘only white’ phenomenom, know spelling but you know what i’m saying…

    and then you get into the class aspect and here, you see class working its nasty prejudice and yes, hate, in not only whites but in people of color as well [any who say otherwise are full of shit]

    and of course, misogyny runs its course through all these separations, and is manifested in the same ways, especially when it comes to violence against womyn, the dominion over womyn and how it done….that cuts across every race, class, culture.

    but womyn do oppress womyn too, and i think thats why my posts on my bio-mom’s abuse sort of pissed a lot of feminists off because,

    its not just that there is this denial of womyn abusing womyn, but there is this refusal to actually look at, how womyn can oppress other womyn of other races, and especially, lower classes, even among their own…

    and i’ve seen This, this truth, treated with total denial because there is this refusal to look within one’s group or race or gender or self even, at the fact, the FACT now that yes, there are those that oppress or take advantage or look down upon, those who are of lower class than them…

    and i really see it in feminism. i really do, just as much as i see racial segregation and yes, racism, on all sides. yes there is Reverse Racism, i seen it, when you have womyn of color generalize all white womyn into this thought that they are all preppy, cute, middle class or upper class, shallow, pretentious, that is, racism. i call it what it is, but its racism,

    its no different that generalizing that all Native Americans are drunks or that all Mexicans are gang bangers or that all Blacks are lazy, etc.

    Some like to reduce the ill effects and say its only prejudice, but thats Bull, its racism, pure and simple.

    ___________________________________________

    and this is what I struggle with on a very deep level, with the working out of past issues, the poverty is always there, and why i still in many ways, concur with some of the beliefs in socialism/communism…just not in the social engineering part…but i just can’t get away from the class reality…or the racial reality…not even, in feminism. in fact, on some of the blogs, its brutally there…marginalization is so much more, than just being a minority.
    Tasha

    Posted by Tasha | June 7, 2007, 7:19 pm
  19. but then, we haven’t had a system of slavery based solely on skin color and ethnicity either, but still

    correction: just saw that [i don’t edit, i really should but i dont’, as i am multi-tasking here]

    but that should be ‘we haven’t had a system of slavery based solely on hair color, but on skin color and ethnicity…

    Tasha

    Posted by Tasha | June 7, 2007, 7:25 pm
  20. oh, i forgot to add, the reason i brought this up is because the military has always relied on the poor, through out history,

    and today especially, the poverty ‘recruitement’,

    most of the womyn fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are beleive if or not, many of them low income single parents, many of them who were National Guard…or many who signed up because the choices are limited, low wage jobs with welfare cuts and no child care, or sex industry or the military.

    and its these womyn, who are getting raped and in fact, i read somewhere that the highest number of womyn getting raped in military are womyn of color, particularly Latina womyn, now that i cannot confirm…that could be propaganda but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least…

    and its the same way with low income men, why you will see, the poorest of rural regions, have the highest number of recruits and service people, and yes, you are absolutely right, after the war is over, the society/government treats these Veterans, the poor fodder of this nation, with contempt,

    in fact K.D. Kitty, its EXACTLY THE SAME TREATMENT THEY GIVE WOMYN, WHEN THEY ARE FORCED TO APPLY FOR ASSISTANCE, ANY ASSISTANCE, OR WHEN THEY ARE FORCED TO APPLY FOR RESTRAINING ORDERS

    AND ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE:

    WOMYN OF COLOR
    LOW INCOME WHITE WOMYN.

    i thought about this yesterday and here is something else that just peeves me to no end because i’m in a current situation,

    is when you read, that womyn don’t leave abusive relationships because they are bonded or because they are this or that,

    THEY NEVER, NEVER TALK ABOUT THOUGH, THE REALITY OF THOUSANDS OF WOMYN,

    THEY CAN’T LEAVE, BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR AND IF THEY DO LEAVE, THEY’LL BE EVEN POORER, MOST LIKELY WILL LOSE THE CHILDREN TO THE ABUSER OR SOCIAL SERVICES, MOST LIKELY WILL FIND THEMSELVES IN FAR WORSE STRAIGHTS,

    and when its a choice, whether to, suck off ten men and be raped and slapped and beaten and gazed at and degraded,

    or put up with it from one man,

    the options aren’t that great, and many will choose the latter, esp if its verbal abuse or economical, even physical, sometimes.

    Economics DOES PLAY A HUGE ROLE, in the oppression of womyn, and also PLAYS A HUGE ROLE, IN THE WAR MACHINE.

    Oh, yea, you hear, well you can get a job…shit, let me set this straight,

    I WAS WORKING THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS HOMELESS AMERIKKKA. THATS RIGHT, WORKING, HAD A J.O.B.

    or, get an education, they say, I DID, NOW I’M IN DEBT UP TO MY ASS SO WHEN I WORK, GUESS WHAT, I MAKE LESS NOW THAN I DID THEN,

    economics…and its why so many, sign up, for the military. And then, to have to deal, with all the bullshit, to survive, after they’ve done their service….plus PLUS live with the PTSD and so forth.

    Why am I just now dealing with so much of facing up to the abuse, because, for years, I DIDN’T HAVE TIME, I WAS TOO BUSY JUMPING OVER CRISIS AFTER CRISIS AFTER CRISIS,

    want to know how many poor womyn suffer from abuse, PTSD, RTS, have all sorts of mental illness and so forth but can’t get the help, because they are barely surviving, and they WORK?

    you won’t see them blogging [only reason I can blog is because my asshole of a husband has a computer, i never owned a computer or a phone, before i met him..well once, i had a phone, when i went through an entire pregancy with no phone, no doctor, no midwife, working in a bar pulling double shifts…the waitresses and bartender pulled funds together and bought me a phone so i could call the fire department, year, when i gave birth, luckily, at nine months, a waitress knew a midwife who helped me….yea, child support, HA, they don’t garnish wages in Texas…they didn’t then, they might now, but he’s in prison now and she’s 14 so whoopie do]

    BUT ANYWAY…yea that poster just triggers so much shit, and i guess its in that — that i do relate to the far left, on many things, especially in confronting poverty, because poverty, is the root of so much hell, and unless you have lived in poverty, and i know this is a lot of what pisses womyn of color off, big time…you just don’t know how the effects of poverty tarnish everything…getting help, yea, try doing that when you are poor and see how fast the system slams down on you….i’ve seen more impoverished womyn lose children to social services for what…for seeking help, thats what, for leaving abusive jerks, for needing treatment…

    and its the same for womyn and men in the military too…

    yea this poster, is just a pathetic attempt at not just war US propaganda, but that pathetic attempt in perpetuating the LIE and MYTH that all is well in Amerikkka and always has been,

    poor people don’t have the same freedoms, in many ways, their ‘mobility’ is very limited…can’t drive cuzz you can’t afford a car, or the insurance, can’t walk without bracing yourself for a fight because you can’t afford to live anywhere but the worst neighborhoods, can’t stand up to abusive landlords because you can’t afford to be evicted or move [yea try dealing with a landlord who stalks you and you wake up one day and he’s standing over you while you are sleeping, and the legal system, cuzz you are poor white trash or poor woman of color, says, oh, you have to have more womyn to complain, or the case won’t stand up….that was me, and thats not even a third]

    there are womyn, low income womyn and men, mostly womyn though, who are losing their children to foster care/social services because they are in the military and they are called up and guess what, Uncle Sam doesn’t give a fuck if they have no family or husband…you go or you got to jail…case in Florida, two years ago,

    the myth is that all recruits sign up because of some patriotism, but thats not all of it,

    many sign up, because they have no work, there is no work that they can actually ‘live’ on, or they have families to support…

    why i brought this up…cuzz its not just patriarchy, its not just racism, its class too, and charity here and there, doesn’t cut it…you may not be aware of the numbers of very low income in Amerikkka, thats because there is a ‘stigma’ on poor, that whole ‘you must be lazy or you must be morally defective’, but its there…its not just overseas and its not just immigrants and its not just people of color either.

    But we have New Orleans, still drowning in misery…how soon Amerikkka forgets, we still have parking lots full of families living in cars, we still have Amerikkkans who can’t get assistance, the numbers of homeless in Amerikkka is ridiculous, in this wealthy nation…supposedly, yet there is more solidarity for open borders so the corps can exploit and pay cheap labor, while pocketing the excess they save from not having to pay taxes and worker’s comp, etc…pitting worker against worker, race against race…
    but bet your ass,

    the Regime of Amerikkka, wants sure, more citizens,

    so they’ll have more poor fodder, for the next war, which may be just around the corner.

    Tasha

    Posted by Tasha | June 7, 2007, 7:56 pm
  21. oh, i forgot to add, the reason i brought this up is because the military has always relied on the poor, through out history,

    and today especially, the poverty ‘recruitement’,

    most of the womyn fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are beleive if or not, many of them low income single parents, many of them who were National Guard…or many who signed up because the choices are limited, low wage jobs with welfare cuts and no child care, or sex industry or the military.

    and its these womyn, who are getting raped and in fact, i read somewhere that the highest number of womyn getting raped in military are womyn of color, particularly Latina womyn, now that i cannot confirm…that could be propaganda but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least…

    and its the same way with low income men, why you will see, the poorest of rural regions, have the highest number of recruits and service people, and yes, you are absolutely right, after the war is over, the society/government treats these Veterans, the poor fodder of this nation, with contempt,

    in fact K.D. Kitty, its EXACTLY THE SAME TREATMENT THEY GIVE WOMYN, WHEN THEY ARE FORCED TO APPLY FOR ASSISTANCE, ANY ASSISTANCE, OR WHEN THEY ARE FORCED TO APPLY FOR RESTRAINING ORDERS

    AND ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE:

    WOMYN OF COLOR
    LOW INCOME WHITE WOMYN.

    i thought about this yesterday and here is something else that just peeves me to no end because i’m in a current situation,

    is when you read, that womyn don’t leave abusive relationships because they are bonded or because they are this or that,

    THEY NEVER, NEVER TALK ABOUT THOUGH, THE REALITY OF THOUSANDS OF WOMYN,

    THEY CAN’T LEAVE, BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR AND IF THEY DO LEAVE, THEY’LL BE EVEN POORER, MOST LIKELY WILL LOSE THE CHILDREN TO THE ABUSER OR SOCIAL SERVICES, MOST LIKELY WILL FIND THEMSELVES IN FAR WORSE STRAIGHTS,

    and when its a choice, whether to, suck off ten men and be raped and slapped and beaten and gazed at and degraded,

    or put up with it from one man,

    the options aren’t that great, and many will choose the latter, esp if its verbal abuse or economical, even physical, sometimes.

    Economics DOES PLAY A HUGE ROLE, in the oppression of womyn, and also PLAYS A HUGE ROLE, IN THE WAR MACHINE.

    Oh, yea, you hear, well you can get a job…shit, let me set this straight,

    I WAS WORKING THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS HOMELESS AMERIKKKA. THATS RIGHT, WORKING, HAD A J.O.B.

    or, get an education, they say, I DID, NOW I’M IN DEBT UP TO MY ASS SO WHEN I WORK, GUESS WHAT, I MAKE LESS NOW THAN I DID THEN,

    economics…and its why so many, sign up, for the military. And then, to have to deal, with all the bullshit, to survive, after they’ve done their service….plus PLUS live with the PTSD and so forth.

    Why am I just now dealing with so much of facing up to the abuse, because, for years, I DIDN’T HAVE TIME, I WAS TOO BUSY JUMPING OVER CRISIS AFTER CRISIS AFTER CRISIS,

    want to know how many poor womyn suffer from abuse, PTSD, RTS, have all sorts of mental illness and so forth but can’t get the help, because they are barely surviving, and they WORK?

    you won’t see them blogging [only reason I can blog is because my asshole of a husband has a computer, i never owned a computer or a phone, before i met him..well once, i had a phone, when i went through an entire pregancy with no phone, no doctor, no midwife, working in a bar pulling double shifts…the waitresses and bartender pulled funds together and bought me a phone so i could call the fire department, year, when i gave birth, luckily, at nine months, a waitress knew a midwife who helped me….yea, child support, HA, they don’t garnish wages in Texas…they didn’t then, they might now, but he’s in prison now and she’s 14 so whoopie do]

    BUT ANYWAY…yea that poster just triggers so much shit, and i guess its in that — that i do relate to the far left, on many things, especially in confronting poverty, because poverty, is the root of so much hell, and unless you have lived in poverty, and i know this is a lot of what pisses womyn of color off, big time…you just don’t know how the effects of poverty tarnish everything…getting help, yea, try doing that when you are poor and see how fast the system slams down on you….i’ve seen more impoverished womyn lose children to social services for what…for seeking help, thats what, for leaving abusive jerks, for needing treatment…

    and its the same for womyn and men in the military too…

    yea this poster, is just a pathetic attempt at not just war US propaganda, but that pathetic attempt in perpetuating the LIE and MYTH that all is well in Amerikkka and always has been,

    poor people don’t have the same freedoms, in many ways, their ‘mobility’ is very limited…can’t drive cuzz you can’t afford a car, or the insurance, can’t walk without bracing yourself for a fight because you can’t afford to live anywhere but the worst neighborhoods, can’t stand up to abusive landlords because you can’t afford to be evicted or move [yea try dealing with a landlord who stalks you and you wake up one day and he’s standing over you while you are sleeping, and the legal system, cuzz you are poor white trash or poor woman of color, says, oh, you have to have more womyn to complain, or the case won’t stand up….that was me, and thats not even a third]

    there are womyn, low income womyn and men, mostly womyn though, who are losing their children to foster care/social services because they are in the military and they are called up and guess what, Uncle Sam doesn’t give a fuck if they have no family or husband…you go or you got to jail…case in Florida, two years ago,

    the myth is that all recruits sign up because of some patriotism, but thats not all of it,

    many sign up, because they have no work, there is no work that they can actually ‘live’ on, or they have families to support…

    why i brought this up…cuzz its not just patriarchy, its not just racism, its class too, and charity here and there, doesn’t cut it…you may not be aware of the numbers of very low income in Amerikkka, thats because there is a ‘stigma’ on poor, that whole ‘you must be lazy or you must be morally defective’, but its there…its not just overseas and its not just immigrants and its not just people of color either.

    But we have New Orleans, still drowning in misery…how soon Amerikkka forgets, we still have parking lots full of families living in cars, we still have Amerikkkans who can’t get assistance, the numbers of homeless in Amerikkka is ridiculous, in this wealthy nation…supposedly, yet there is more solidarity for open borders so the corps can exploit and pay cheap labor, while pocketing the excess they save from not having to pay taxes and worker’s comp, etc…pitting worker against worker, race against race…
    but bet your ass,

    the Regime of Amerikkka, wants sure, more citizens,

    so they’ll have more poor fodder, for the next war, which may be just around the corner.

    Tasha

    Posted by Tasha | June 7, 2007, 7:56 pm

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