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Rape and Sexual Assault

Blogging While Female. Hacking as Sexual Terrorism.

Proxy is like a condom! But in this case it masks your IP so every time you access through a proxy it gives you a BRAND NEW IP address but it also masks the incoming URL so you can’t block it!

These are the words of a sexual terrorist, a rapist.  These guys know that’s what they’re doing.  They call it “raep.”  This threat is in my spam queue with all the others.

My ISP took my site down.  There is too much traffic. 

They are investigating.  

I have six years of my feminist life in my site.  I built it with my own blood, sweat, tears, hours and hours, days, weeks, thousands of hours of building, laboring over the text, the words, the images, the women.  I paid for all of it myself.  I taught myself every step of the way–  taught myself html, taught myself how to design and maintain a website, how to moderate boards.  I found  links to websites which preserved the lives and work of feminist women many have never heard of, even though these women are still living.  I posted those links on my site to preserve our herstory as women.  The banner at the top of my site is from a photo of a quilt my 20 year old daughter created when she was 17 in response to the book Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston.  This was my site and I loved it, and I still love it, and I am so, so proud of it.  Many, many other women have loved it, too.  We created community there, bridging cultures, nations, ethnicities, diverse backgrounds, lifestyles, beliefs.  We made relationships with one another, some of which became real life relationships.

I feel so broken-hearted.  I feel devastated.  I feel, and have been, and still am, terrorized.  Nothing will ever be the same for me.

Women, we have to rise up.   We are terrorized in our homes, we are terrorized in the streets, everywhere in our world.  And we are terrorized on the internet.   We have to care about, and save, our own lives.  We’ve got to build something different for our own sake, for the sake of the women we love, for the sake of the great river of women which came before us, women who gave all they could and had to make a better world for us, their daughters, to inhabit.  We have to build for the sake of our baby girls and our granddaughters, and all women, men, children, animals, growing things, all life, for the whole planet.

Help me build.  I’m getting old, and I swear I won’t go down without giving my last breath, whatever I have left, to building a world that is inhabitable for all people, and especially for girls and women.

I’m so sorry.  I tried so hard. 

We’ll be back.  But you know, what has been taken from us can never be restored.  It can’t be made right.  It  is really serious. 




162 thoughts on “Blogging While Female. Hacking as Sexual Terrorism.

  1. I’m sorry.

    Posted by Laurelin | August 6, 2007, 8:41 pm
  2. They. did. WHAT???

    Heart, I am so sorry! This is outrageous, why should the criminal actions of others be justification for destroying YOUR WORK???

    Are they investigating who is generating all this extra traffic (as if we didn’t know) and will they take action against them? Will the site be put back up after the investigation is complete? Is anything saved or preserved somewhere? How does this work? The only ones who could actually be happy with this outcome are the porn spamming, death threatening hackers.

    I will help you build.

    Posted by Branjor | August 6, 2007, 8:44 pm
  3. It’s all still there. Yes, they are investigating. I don’t know what action, if any, they will take, and I don’t know yet what I am going to do. The site will go back up when the investigation is finished. It’s all preserved, it’s all backed up, nothing is lost.

    I will keep blogging here.

    I know you’ll help me build, Branjor and Laurelin.




    Posted by womensspace | August 6, 2007, 8:54 pm
  4. I’d like to help, though I have no idea what I could do. .

    Posted by Chloe | August 6, 2007, 8:57 pm
  5. I’m so sorry, Heart. Your website is/was a wonderful resource and it’s a travesty that this has happened.

    These rotters need to think about what freedom of speech means, because I know they claim it for themselves. Or maybe what they always meant was freedom for them to do whatever they like and destroy whoever gets in their way.

    They won’t stop you and they won’t stop us.

    Posted by delphyne | August 6, 2007, 8:58 pm
  6. I don’t even know what to say, ‘cept I’ll help however I can. Goddess, if there were ever a time you needed Michigan, it’s now. I wish we were all going to be there with you. 😥

    Posted by Melissa | August 6, 2007, 9:10 pm
  7. Whew, THAT’S good!

    Did they give you any idea of how long this investigation will take?

    {{}} back atcha! Don’t let it get you down, Heart, you are in the right and the board WILL be back and the perps dealt with somehow.

    (I don’t know what the second symbol means).

    Posted by Branjor | August 6, 2007, 9:14 pm
  8. I’m so sorry Heart. Yes, this is a mirror image of the greater picture – where men silence us. Reminds me of the burning times in Europe where the so called convicted witch would have her tongue removed prior to her walk to the gallows. This was purportedly so that she could not hex her torturers – in reality it was to silence her truth. Uncomfortable verity for her abusers which would elicit sympathy from the “spectators” as she screeched of her torment at the hands of her tormentors.

    Out with her tongue!

    Posted by sparklematrix | August 6, 2007, 9:14 pm
  9. Count me in with the help too, Heart.

    They will not stop us.

    They cannot stop us.

    Posted by witchy-woo | August 6, 2007, 9:20 pm
  10. Heart, when bad things happen, I try to do something good that I wouldn’t have otherwise done. I hear about something bad happening, something done in mean spirit, and I turn around and do something good in the spirit of kindness, to put something decent back in the world. It gives me power in the face of this crap.

    Here’s what I plan on doing in the next five days that I wouldn’t have done if I hadn’t heard about this assault on Heart’s work:

    1. I’m going to spend 6 hours this week volunteering at my local women’s shelter – one hour for every year Heart’s spent building her site. I know they need help sorting donations and cleaning, and while I hate doing that stuff, I’m so there.

    2. By Friday, I’m going to write letters to 6 of my local representatives asking them to meet with me and some of my activist friends about restorative justice measures in my community. Restorative justice is an approach to dealing with crime that focuses not on punishment or retribution but on seeking justice for the community as a whole, on healing, and on helping offenders learn non-violent and non-violating ways to deal with anger, frustration, and inequality.

    3. I’m donating more money to Heart. I already donated in order to help her get to MichFest and wasn’t planning on donating any more, but in light of this attack on her boards, I’m donating again and I’m donating 6 times what my last donation was. I am blessed to be in a position to do so, and I’m doing it with all the grace and humility I have. I am among many women who have found support in the community she’s created and I’m proud to invest in it and in the woman who maintains it.

    So to those of you who engineered, participated in, or just got a few jollies off what happened: What you’ve done is indecent, mean, cowardly, and vile. As a feminist, I’m countering it with decency, kindness, courage, and humanity. When you’re high-fiving yourselves over the damage you’ve done, know that you didn’t win or even really “score” for that matter. You just shit all over something. Any ape with a functional digestive system can do that.

    Posted by Amber | August 6, 2007, 9:31 pm
  11. There is a silver lining. Even a victory for us perhaps. When this much time and attention is devoted to sabotage something/someone, the act in itself validates the existence of said target. It may not feel like it now, but it is empowering. If, if we truly conveyed meekness, submission, and defeat then no attention would have been given to us. A flick of the hand would have been waved in our direction. However, the big guns were brought out, exposed, utilized, you know, the way an army is engaged when a true enemy is at hand. Oh they will hint or attempt to hint that they have bigger weapons, stronger weapons, etc, but their hand has been shown, has been played. A few death threats, a few rape threats, a few hacking is all they got. They will bombard comment sections, repeat quotes, perhaps photoshop a few images. I say whooopppppddeee doooo. The true enemies, the enemy that can truly subvert are the enemies within, the women who are basking in the chaos that has happened here, the women who are implying and out and out saying that this is all made up, all a campaign to garner sympathy and the men who will attached themselves to those women, convince those women that porn is fun, being a submissive is fun, cool, and eventually, it will be the way of life for all women. Radical feminists fight this goal and are obviously putting a dent in their mission, making sense, being logical, gaining allies, —the works, if not, the opposition would not be interested in trying to retard us, hinder us, destroy us. Honestly, has this campaigned splintered radical feminists or strengthened radical feminists. I laugh at their stupidity. The basic tenants of psychological warfare is to make an opponent feel inadequate, powerless. How can we possibly feel inadequate after all of this attention. As part of this group, I feel powerful, a force to be reckon with! They are the ones running scared, they are the ones who are worried that women will be educated, that little girls will learn math and science and feel empowered and will become the bosses of their sons. AH! I smell fear and that fear is not coming from the scent of a woman, but the sweat of a scared man. Yes, we are making headway.

    Posted by Kitty Glendower | August 6, 2007, 9:56 pm
  12. Yeah, we’ll be back. I’m not sure when but of course, I will be agitating. I haven’t read all your posts yet, women, but thank you all. I’m going to e-mail you.

    And I need to thank you, Rick Seelhoff, for sitting in front of the computer for hours and hours and mucking through the most necrophilic, vile stuff which can be imagined in the attempt to deal with this crap and protect my website. The term “sado-society” doesn’t even begin to do justice to what these guys wallow in. No wonder they behave as they do.

    Anyway, thank you. Sniff.


    Posted by womensspace | August 6, 2007, 10:09 pm
  13. My last post got caught up in the filter I expect, but I’m not done yet, I want to relay a story first and then I’ll hush up for a bit *smile*.

    There is a park, not far from my home, that is a wildlife preserve. It’s really out of the way for most people and sits out in the middle of nowhere, because of this it doesn’t draw the traffic that other parks draw. It closes at dark although the gates are rarely closed by the parks department, primarily (I suspect) because of its remote location.

    I went to this park over the weekend. It is a heavily wooded forest that is filled to brimming with native wildlife. Wild Turkey, Pheasant, Deer, Coyotes and even a bobcat or two live here amoung other things. The forest itself is old growth and the canopy is thick and makes for wonderful cover if you go when it’s raining.

    This Saturday I went to the park. I got there rather late, around 8:00 pm and, since I knew I would most likely be there after the sun went down, I brought a flashlight. I walked and I sat and I thought and I walked some more. I had some wonderful encounters with local wildlife, eventually though the sun did set and I found myself in a rapidly darkening forest. As the last bits of daylight blinked out of existence the ‘night shift’ came onto duty.

    Raccoons were glimpsed out of the corner of my eye. Owls woke up, possums began moving around. My vision reduced to mere feet and the dark trees were like huge sentinels. Strange sounds began to erupt and the yipping of coyotes erupted from the dark forest.

    The time was 9:45 and, in the middle of the utter darkness with the thick canopy of forest over my head and amid the foreign sounds of the nighttime animals I decided to sit down.

    In conditions that would likely have terrified most men, almost absolute blindness, dark shapes of animals staying just outside the area of my sight, the sounds of a rather large pack of coyotes coming closer, I sat down. I sat, in the middle of this space and I felt more at ease and more at home and confident than I ever feel at the store or in public.

    The darkness wasn’t scary. The animals weren’t scary. The fact that I couldn’t see wasn’t scary. I sat there for a good long time and then something occured to me. The park closes at dusk, but I was aware that the gates are rarely closed and that forestry people rarely come to this place. However, I was certain that men came here to drink, I had seen the evidence of this several times in the form of beer bottles and headlights at night.

    Men occasionally come to the park after hours. Men who likely travelled with other men. Perhaps they were teenagers, not yet 21 but sure as hell in a grown male body.

    My blood ran cold in my veins. I fumbled immediately for my fanny pack and my flashlight and then I paused and decided that a flashlight would sure as hell let any man know precisely where I was.

    In a secluded forest, a place that has always been a sort of chapel to me, a place where I slip off the well worn trail and meditate for hours in the darkening forest I was scared. I was terrified because I know what men are like. I know through many painful encounters that a woman, in the middle of a forest, with no ability to defend herself, at night, is a target.

    The coyotes closing in around me brought smiles to my lips and a sense of wonder and childlike safety and good humor. The thought of a group of young men sneaking into the park after hours to drink a stolen or illegally bought 6 pack of beer was bone chilling.

    It occured to me then that there is no animal on this proud planet that is more dangerous to a lone woman than a man.

    I scurried out of the park, thinking all the while about male hunters in the woods trying to poach the wildlife and what could possibly happen to me if they came upon me out there, defenseless.

    It also occured to me that there is no place on this planet where I can go to feel safe from men. No place where my autonomy and body isn’t threatened, even if my actual chances of being harmed by a strange man in the woods are remote, I have FELT male violence my whole life and my head remembers it very clearly.

    This is what men have made of me. Of my life and my existence. And even in places where we feel we are safe, the internet, a remote forest, we are reminded, violently if necessary, that we will never be far enough out of the way. We will never be able to put enough distance between us and them, they will find us and remind us that they will violate us if given half the chance.

    Until last weekend I would occasionally go to the park at dusk. After recalling and remembering that no place is actually safe, I will probably not be doing that again.

    Chalk up yet another win for the terrorism of man.

    Posted by bitingbeaver | August 6, 2007, 10:41 pm
  14. Heart, tyhere is a lot of my history on that site too, although I haven’t been there for very long. I am changed forever by the compassion I was shown when I landed in a soft place after my world fell apart and my eyes were opened to the fact that it was not my fault and that there was nothing wrong with me.

    I’m younger than you and also rejuvenated by you and this little life inside me that you had something to do with, at least in giving me the courage to think I could raise her to be a strong woman in this terrifying world.

    Please let me know if there is anything at all I can do to help. I have struggled with the privacy issue over this and come to the conclusion that it is not only okay but necessary for me to mention this situation on the other forums I frequent.

    I also recently googled my username and realize now that I might have accidentally confused some of you; I am not the same anonymom who blogs on Word Press. I was not trying to impersonate her, only to choose a different handle from the ones I use on Mommy boards and political boards because I did not want to attract any of my own detractors to my place of refuge.

    Please let me know if there is anything at all I can do to help get the boards back up again or just to help your soul cope with this.

    I like my Women’s Space username because I feel that it reflects who I was when I came here and the fact that I am representative of many, many other women in similar circumstances, but if this is too confusing, I will just go back to my usual handle from elsewhere.

    Posted by anonymom | August 6, 2007, 10:43 pm
  15. These rotters need to think about what freedom of speech means, because I know they claim it for themselves.

    I’m sure they’d shout it at the tops of their lungs as a desperate defense if they ever had to account for any of the things they said.

    Posted by gingermiss | August 6, 2007, 11:29 pm
  16. Heart, did you just try to post a comment on my site? I think it was someone pretending to be you.

    Posted by Laurelin | August 6, 2007, 11:33 pm
  17. Laurelin, no, I didn’t comment to your blog, so don’t approve it.


    Posted by womensspace | August 6, 2007, 11:36 pm
  18. Heart,

    We are the watershed.

    We are the mountain rising from the depths of the earth.

    The rivers of women will flow from either side of us: to the shining sea, or to the barrens of the scorched desert sands.

    Our view is from the mountaintop, and it is unsurpassed.


    Posted by Mary Sunshine | August 6, 2007, 11:50 pm
  19. Oh, Mary. Yeah.

    And we’ll have to return to the old ways, I think. The ways we’ve talked about.


    Posted by womensspace | August 7, 2007, 12:11 am
  20. One thing:

    BB, you need to contact me or ginmar NOW. I emailed you at your old address.

    As for the rest, unfortunately the answer will be what it’s always been, get a space that you or the ones you trust can control. Setting up an LJ community isn’t hard, and you can block anonymous posting, give rights to friends to open threads. You can even lock the blog and make it friends only.

    And that’s a good thing you did, Rick. I’m glad Heart has someone local to help her out. You are a NotNigel. 🙂

    Posted by Miranda | August 7, 2007, 12:14 am
  21. Heart: though you’ve not approved any of my comments so far, hopefully you will at least read this. I am here for anything you may need technically, though your son may be just as useful as I when it comes to forensics or helping you find the resources you will need to protect yourself from further attacks on your forum, or be aware when vulnerabilities are found in the packages you are using.

    These attacks don’t last forever, have courage, and as cheesy as it sounds take heart.

    Posted by Erin | August 7, 2007, 1:18 am
  22. These posts by all you wonderful women are getting me all choked up. 🙂
    Just checking back in to say that I’ve also donated to your Michfest fund, Heart. I hope you get there, you need it after all this, no doubt.

    Posted by Chloe | August 7, 2007, 2:07 am
  23. Heart,

    I have been lurking for a while reading your blog, and like so many other women here, I am appalled at the violence and anger that is being directed at you for daring to stand up and hold men accountable for what they do, and for creating spaces that honor the words and achievements of women.

    Like just about every woman on earth, there have been times when I haven’t stood up for myself and other women, when, because of fear or lack of options I’ve stayed silent, I’ve been complicit in supporting and reproducing male supremacy. And I know that in order to be able to do that, every time I had to commit an act of self-annihilation, to willfully suppress my voice, my ideas, my experience, my knowledge of the truth. And I know that every time I did it, it harmed me.

    And that, I think, is one of the worst things men do to us. That a lot of the time they don’t even have to get their hands dirty with our blood because they have taught/forced us to annihilate ourselves and save them the trouble.

    I also know that even though there have been times when I have been ridiculed or marginalized or targeted with violence for being a feminist, on none of those occasions did I feel as bad as the times when I killed myself for men, in a futile attempt to avoid the displeasure of men, displeasure that will still be unleashed on me no matter what I do, simply because I am female.

    If we resist, men try to kill us; if we submit, they’re guaranteed to kill us. Some days it looks like a grim prospect, but I also know that it is only through living as a feminist that I have any chance of living at all. Feminism, and the women like you Heart, and the other women who comment here, and all the women going back hundreds of years who have refused to go quietly and willingly to the deaths men desire for them, have given me back so many things that patriarchy continually tries to take from me – self respect, self love, self confidence, self knowledge, knowledge of the wisdom and herstory of women, knowledge of different ways of seeing, being, thinking, living, loving that do not conform to the eternal death dance that is patriarchy.

    Audre Lorde said something to the effect that all any of us can do is stand where we are, where we have fought so incredibly hard to get, and point the way forward for others to follow. A painfully hard and slow process, especially when there are men left right and centre trying to shoot us down where we stand, reverse our hard-won advances, and fool or intimidate any women away who might follow and continue to push forward.

    But you know what else, Heart? I’m in my mid twenties. I’ve run the gauntlet of postmodernism and queer theory and ‘sex-positivism’ and prostitution as choice and masochism as liberation, all the same old lies in shiny new wrappers, lies concocted at least in part with the specific intention of blinding women like me to the truths revealed by 1970s feminism, lies intended to tell me I don’t need feminism, lies intended to keep me bound up in the same old chains women have been wearing for centuries.

    But I am still here. I know the lies for what they are. And I could not have done that, could not have opened my eyes so clearly, if you, and all the courageous women like you, hadn’t stood where you are, risking everything, to point the way forward for women like me. I live in defiance of men, who would have me dead. I own my soul and my body and my thoughts and my integrity and my work in defiance of men, who would have me parrot the banalities they call wisdom and labor towards individual and global suicide. Even if I sometimes stumble, I refuse self-annihilation as a way of life.

    Keep fighting Heart, and I will too.

    Posted by Dragon | August 7, 2007, 2:41 am
  24. I don’t have much time on my hands these days, but if you want, I’ll help you make a board where these amateurs couldn’t even get their little toe in the front door.

    As you probably know, I’ve had boards for time on end and I’ve never been hacked. No one’s even come close. These mutants could mask their ips from now until kingdom come and they still wouldn’t get past square one.

    If you’re interested, let me know.

    Posted by Luckynkl | August 7, 2007, 3:03 am
  25. Count me in as another one willing to help. I haven’t given money to anything before, but I’m willing to give what I can if you need it.

    I’ll also try to actually comment more, when I think of something to say (for what that’s worth). Fear of this sort of harassment was one thing that kept me a lurker for so long, but now I feel like talking, even if only to spite the men who would have us silent!

    Posted by keen | August 7, 2007, 5:31 am
  26. Keen, I totally hear you. I was very quiet on the boards but now I find myself speaking out more about what is going on here and another incident in my life that involves a pornographer/pedophile and I am not afraid to identify myself as a Feminist on the Mommy boards any more. There are consequences when we speak out, but there are greater consequences when we keep quiet out of fear.

    If I have learned nothing else in 42 years, at least I have learned that much.

    Posted by anonymom | August 7, 2007, 6:34 am
  27. Don’t despair!!!

    Posted by profacero | August 7, 2007, 7:19 am
  28. My ISP took my site down. There is too much traffic.

    They got as well. It exceeded its bandwidth. I am not sure when that happened. The webmaster found a nasty writeup on Heart with a bunch of links to Margins and as raep targets. They are so pleased with their success. I 100% agree, this can never be put right.

    encyclopediadramatica dot com/Cheryl_Lindsey_Seelhoff

    Posted by Aletha | August 7, 2007, 7:20 am
  29. P.S. Actually, it will be interesting when it becomes more common to press charges for this kind of thing. I’ve read cyberstalking / harrassment / abuse statutes for several states as well as related / supporting material and the authors – people who have studied the phenomenon – are quite clear that it is actual violence, and knowledgeable about how the phenomenon works – through rumors, impersonations, etc. as well as direct speech and threats. Getting non-experts in the field to see that, or people without much experience of the cyberworld, is a whole other game, and it appears to me at this point that although laws exist, they are not fully understood or enforced. But – and this is my point – they exist, and I’d consider going and dumping all of this on a D.A.

    Posted by profacero | August 7, 2007, 7:27 am
  30. Mary Sunshine

    We are the watershed.

    We are the mountain rising from the depths of the earth.

    The rivers of women will flow from either side of us: to the shining sea, or to the barrens of the scorched desert sands.

    Our view is from the mountaintop, and it is unsurpassed.

    Thank you Mary. And Thank You Heart. I will stand on the mountain with you, we will not be silenced.

    Posted by Jokerine | August 7, 2007, 8:08 am
  31. Thank you, wimmin. I am thinking about you.



    Posted by womensspace | August 7, 2007, 10:12 am
  32. I don’t know what to say. 😦

    Men suck.

    Posted by Sekhmet | August 7, 2007, 11:11 am
  33. I don’t disagree in the slightest that this is violence, and have only my standard qualms about involving law enforcement in computer security issues (sorry, I don’t like it and never will. I have seen innocent people loose years out of their life and livelihoods over judicial failings) As a tactical/technical issue there are a whole bunch of challenges that you’ll have to bear before actually even getting that far. Perhaps focus on the 10 or so worse, hoping to at least expose them and strip from them their anon standing?

    Posted by Erin | August 7, 2007, 12:19 pm
  34. Is it legal to foment a denial of service attack? My service provider has been alerted, but I have to wonder, how can inciting such attacks be legal? Could the service provider of this hit piece on Heart be persuaded to take it down? I think I will attempt to find out. I may also try various things to get the word out on this latest travesty of free speech.

    Heart, are you able to moderate while you are away? If not, I may appear to disappear, since my recent comments got sent to moderation again. It might be a good idea to check on the entry at Wikipedia, to see if it gets trashed. At the moment it appears intact, but Wikipedia is considering deleting it for various stupid reasons. I will research that a bit more, but if I do not post this soon, it may sit in the moderation queue for a week!

    Posted by Aletha | August 7, 2007, 12:57 pm
  35. The service provider is on the case. The web access log shows unmistakable evidence of a denial of service attack. The encyclopediadramatica hit piece has already been taken down, but I could email it as HTML or text to anyone who wants to see it. It has already been sent to the service provider. I looked at the history of Heart’s Wikipedia entry, noting some malicious editing has already been done. Heart had to repair some of that this morning.

    Posted by Aletha | August 7, 2007, 4:03 pm
  36. Dragon, every word you wrote resonates truth with me and my experiences first trying to appease men then learning to refuse men’s demands when it became clear there was no pleasing men enough to match the pleasure they take in bullying women.

    Posted by Sam | August 7, 2007, 4:05 pm
  37. Dear Heart,

    As a longtime lurker here at Women’s Space, I just had to delurk for a moment in order to convey my profound sadness at what has occurred.

    Know this…your voice has been the light of hope to me on more than one occasion…and as you no doubt already know, the voice of truth will always win out in the end.

    The men who did this are typical of men throughout time who, when faced with woman’s superior power, intellect, and sense of justice, resort to the only thing they have left…the power to destroy. They are jealous, and they are afraid…and as we all know…when men feel threatened they will resort to the most vile tactics in order to put us “uppity women” back in our place.

    So…you must be doing something right…grin.

    Never fear, never despair, never give up…never…


    Posted by Suki | August 7, 2007, 4:22 pm
  38. As everyone has already said (I’m late coming by), your community will surround you.

    Your voice is too important to many of us.. and we don’t want to lose it. You can count on our support. I believe this.



    Posted by thailandchani | August 7, 2007, 4:49 pm
  39. I just went to the encyclopediadramatica. The hit piece is STILL THERE.

    Posted by Branjor | August 7, 2007, 5:03 pm
  40. Theres even no disputing it. They call it “raep”. They know what they are doing.

    They call it “raep”.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 7, 2007, 5:36 pm
  41. First, Aletha, what is “exceed bandwidth”? Pardon ignorance. Can ISPs just do this to anyone????

    I am sorry this is happening to you, Heart. Need to ask: did you email me today? Looks shady, so I didn’t open it. As previously mentioned, I think someone is pretending to be you. (?) It’s the subject line that doesn’t sound like you. From a yahoo address.

    I’m so sorry. This is all so fucked up.

    Posted by Daisy | August 7, 2007, 8:16 pm
  42. Daisy, your ‘I’m so sorry’ would come across as more sincere if you were not hyperlinking your comment to a post dedicated to criticising Heart.

    Posted by Arantxa | August 7, 2007, 10:30 pm
  43. Yes, Heart, you’ll be back. You seem to have lots of support from some awesome women.

    Posted by Arantxa | August 7, 2007, 10:34 pm
  44. Now, THIS is an interesting site!

    Working to Halt Online Abuse

    Posted by Miranda | August 7, 2007, 10:36 pm
  45. I saw the ED “hit piece.” I don’t know if I’ve ever felt so sick in my life. How can that be legal???

    Posted by sbravo | August 7, 2007, 11:10 pm
  46. I read Dragon’s thing yesterday, but I had to come back today to copy it, and put it in my “amazing” folder. Just wanted Dragon to know: that was beautifully written even though the sentiment itself was quite sad. Thank you!

    I do not understand how men can utilize the first admentment to legally publish so much sexualized violence against women; and yet, the women who work so hard delineating those harmful effects are LEGALLY allowed to be harrassed and terrorized online — with the exact same tactics that are used offline, no less.

    Hasn’t an environment which fosters hatred been proven harmful? The men who run these sites and the people who visit them seem to understand that racism is unacceptable, yet sexism seems to be actively encouraged. Why ? Jokes about lynchings are taboo, but rape jokes are hilarious. Why? Racist language is a bannable offence, but sexualized violence is downright patriotic. Why?

    Why is it legal to harrass women to the point where we leave the public internet? Why?

    Go look at the site Branjor posted, and look at their rape section! Hate against women is legal BECAUSE THEY HATE US!!!!! Feminists want to believe that hatred of women is still legal because too many rich men would have to close up shop; no, it’s because *too many men enjoy terrorizing women* and will pay other men for the privilege.

    Posted by mAndrea | August 7, 2007, 11:22 pm
  47. I just went to the encyclopediadramatica. The hit piece is STILL THERE.

    I have screenshots of that Heart – if you (or anyone else) need them.

    Posted by witchy-woo | August 7, 2007, 11:32 pm
  48. this cannot be a coincidence that it’s happening as soon as you’ve announced that you’re running for president. I knew the backlash from that would be brutal but this is astonishing. and fast. this is political, gyns, not personal.

    Posted by stacy | August 8, 2007, 12:02 am
  49. Daisy, an ISP can only move so much data so fast, called bandwidth, and so when you buy hosting you buy a certain amount of bandwidth, say 1GB per month. If more than this is taken in that month, a site will be removed until either more is paid for or the next month is reached. Unfortunately, the ISPs can just do this…

    Branjor, I assume you meant ‘hate piece’ (unless I am misunderstanding something…) – I have looked at the site and it seems to have had people try to shut it down before; much of it contradicts itself, even in a single article, and seems to be some sick ‘joke’, and even ridiculed others who have complained about its offensive content.

    Posted by pyramiimaryp | August 8, 2007, 12:20 am
  50. Stacy, that’s what I’ve been thinking too. Please stay safe, Heart, and don’t forget what happened to Paul Wellstone and Hunter S. Thompson. No, I don’t believe the official stories about either of those deaths.

    Posted by anonymom | August 8, 2007, 12:34 am
  51. I want to say that I’m surprised by this attack, but I’m not. I want to say I’m appalled by this attack on you (and Althea), but that’s not an adequate description.

    I’m at a loss for words.


    Posted by archcrone | August 8, 2007, 12:40 am
  52. I did a little searching on that encyclopediadramatica site you linked, and it looks like the attacks are coming not from there, but from,, and I don’t recommend going to any of those sites (they’re absolutely vile…) but if you do pursue legal action, that’s probably the place to start.

    Posted by ezra | August 8, 2007, 1:13 am
  53. This is not winning. It’s a temporary setback. Hearrt, I’d urge you to set up a community on LJ, where they can’t harass you and can’t comment. Want some help? WAnt some FBI help? Contact me.

    Posted by ginmar | August 8, 2007, 1:32 am
  54. First, Aletha, what is “exceed bandwidth”? Pardon ignorance. Can ISPs just do this to anyone????

    Bandwidth is a measurement of data transfer in computer networking. When you have a website, the server that hosts your website usually sets a limit to the amount of information that your website can transfer to visitors. To “exceed bandwidth” means you’ve got too many people visiting your site. In cases where internet jerks try to take down websites, they slam the website with as many visitors as possible so that the website will exceed their allowed bandwidth and be removed.

    That’s my understanding of it, anyway.

    Posted by gingermiss | August 8, 2007, 4:08 am
  55. Men win? Men win what?

    I see victory for women. Not defeat.

    I, for one, am glad to see men take their masks off and ditch that phony disguise of theirs. Because it better enables women to more plainly see how much men really hate them and exposes them as the monsters they really are.

    In case y’all haven’t noticed, Radical Feminism and Lesbianism is on the rise. It’s on the rise in startling numbers. Because the more men beat their piggy little chests and bully, the less women want anything to do with them. Women, as a result, are more actively seeking each other out and bonding more solidly together in sisterhood. As the numbers increase, so does the strength and solidarity of the sisterhood. I mean, just feast your eyes on your blog and boards, Heart. Compare it to what it was a year ago. Are you blind? Can you not see it? This is not a defeat. This is victory. You have accomplished what you set out to do.

    The patriarchy is fast approaching its logical conclusion. Self destruction. But as I have warned in previous posts, as the dragon dies, its tail is going to whip out desperately, in a frantic, last ditch effort to hold onto what it cannot hold onto, making these dangerous times for women. It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Because men are not going to give up their beloved patriarchy without a fight. But it’s too late. Women are out of the box. And we’re not going back.

    Feminism, you see, didn’t fail. It’s men who failed. It’s men who refused and failed to change. Women, on the other hand, have changed plenty. And so men are doomed to go the way of the dinosaur. Because men refuse to adapt to change.

    So chin up, my sisters. The fact that men are noticing and waging war on our sites is a good indication that we’re on the right track and striking a bit of fear into their hearts. Because if we weren’t a threat, they wouldn’t even notice us.

    That, Heart, is not defeat. THAT, m’dear, is victory.

    So what if they win a few battles. Surely you didn’t think these boys were gonna go down peacefully, without a fight? Come on, now. Let’s get real. They’re gonna go out kicking and screaming. But it doesn’t much matter to me how they go out. **shrug** I suppose if worse comes to worse, we could always suit up these fearsome little warriors and send them over to Iraq with their mighty little keyboards. I’m sure the Iraqis will be most impressed with how they can freeze their letter “k.”

    Posted by Luckynkl | August 8, 2007, 4:34 am
  56. ((hugs)) to all of us. This has been a really rough week, with the misogyny unusually naked, but all of us are strong, or we wouldn’t be here, still supporting Heart and each other.

    Just remember, they’re robbing themselves of days and days of life in an utterly futile attempt to “put us in our place”, instead provoking amusement (some of them are adorably pathetic), anger, and resolve.

    Keep the circle strong, wimmin 😀

    Posted by odanu | August 8, 2007, 6:00 am
  57. They can’t win, Heart. With every attack, another group of women will stand up and say, “You can’t do this.”

    Posted by eilidh70 | August 8, 2007, 6:16 am
  58. had almost 700000 hits yesterday. They kept pounding on it until the service provider pulled the plug. AFAIK they can do this to anyone, and they have added another success: has fallen to Legion! WE’RE IN UR DOOR,

    That is from the hit piece, which I must have looked for between updates. Now also in its breaking news section is personal information about Biting Beaver, who they are trying to find. I would not put it past these guys to carry out some of their threats. They also list Heart’s Wikipedia entry

    Shameless self-promotion on Wikipedia (VFD going on right now. Vote DELETE for a better Wikipedia!)

    The service provider so far is not much help, distinguishing the excess traffic from a denial of service attack and saying they cannot do much about it. Whatever that means. The web access log makes it obvious what was going on. They recommend removing or password protecting the targeted images! Would that help much, if at all? I may be looking for another service provider, unless it is true they cannot do much of anything?

    Posted by Aletha | August 8, 2007, 7:38 am
  59. I’m resurrecting my old ‘Feminist New Caprica’ LJ community at least by this weekend, and I plan to keep it going. Let more voices speak, not fewer.

    As for what lucky said, I think this has been a firing point for women. I’ve posted about the problems on my journal, and my flist isn’t overtly feminist…they were shocked and horrified. Personally, I’m angy.

    Because it’s not like we walked in lockstep, particularly back on the Ms boards. Hee, we freaking tap-danced all over each other’s nerves on some days. But somehow, nobody sent each other rape threats or child porn.

    Posted by Miranda | August 8, 2007, 10:34 am
  60. I just found out about what happened to your site Heart, it is terrible, I hope you will have your sites back up and running soon. I don’t post much but I’m sure there are thousands of other lurkers that appreciate your writing and hope you will not let these terrorists get you down.

    Posted by fatalfemme | August 8, 2007, 12:40 pm
  61. I’m so sorry, Heart. I’ve been reading your last posts reeling with the shock of how perverted these people are. As if it wasn’t enough to terrorise women in real life, they have to do it on the internet. Yes, I agree with eilidh70 – they can’t win, they won’t win when there still exist places where women will stand up and say exactly that. Did they think that this would discourage women from writing their blogs, making a difference, raising consciousness? I don’t think so.

    Posted by Liz | August 8, 2007, 12:43 pm
  62. Yep, that’s pretty much how bandwidth works, Gingermiss. Except usually it’s a monthly allowance. You get so much bandwidth a month. If your site uses up the monthly allowance, then the site is temporarily shut down until the following month, and then the meter starts ticking all over again.

    Bandwidth, gigabytes of storage, number of sql databases, etc. varies from isp to isp and host to host. It also depends on what plan one has opted for. When one exceeds one’s plan, one usually upgrades the plan.

    There are many, many isps and hosting plans out there. It’s pretty cheap these days. I can run a half decent site for $3.99 a month. And do. There are a lot better plans out there than the one I have. I just opted for the one I have now because the really awesome host I did have, packed its bags and took off in the middle of the night. I can’t complain much. I got the service for free. With all the bells and whistles and many unlimited features. After my host split, their hosts were kind enough to temporarily bring up our sites again so we could save everything. It was so sudden, I didn’t have time to shop around and just opted for one I had in the past that I knew I could pay monthly for.

    Most plans would like you pay yearly. It comes out to pretty close to the same amount I pay, if you break it down monthly. They just want it all at once. I usually don’t like those plans because if the host decides to split in the middle of the night, like my host did, you can kiss your money goodbye. Again, I didn’t pay anything for my site so I didn’t lose any money. But a lot of other people did.

    It’s like most anything you buy these days. Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Make sure the host is reputable and has been around for awhile before you start forking over the money.

    With the advent of Windows XP Professional (and now, Vista Ultimate), one can actually serve their site off their own home computer. Most hosts opt for Linux tho because it takes up a lot less space, is a lot more stable, and can be more tailor made. But of course this requires some knowledge of computers and time. Which is why most people opt for hosts. Hosts do the work, maintenance, upgrades and security and make it more user friendly.

    If I were to recommend a host, HostMonster seems to give a lot of bang for the buck. I think Twisty uses their sister company, Bluehost. It’s the same company, but I think HostMonster is a little bit cheaper than Bluehost. If I remember correctly tho, Twisty’s forum exceeded its bandwidth as well. So chances are she had to spend a little more money and upgrade her plan.

    Hope this all helps.

    Posted by Luckynkl | August 8, 2007, 1:20 pm
  63. Love and hugs to all! They can’t win this.

    Posted by Laurelin | August 8, 2007, 2:37 pm
  64. This is sick, but they are proving feminists’ point. Keep on Heart. This stuff just makes me more radical.

    Posted by citywood | August 8, 2007, 2:42 pm
  65. Dear Heart:

    I am here via several others already known to you (Ginmar, Miranda, etc.).

    I’ve linked you in my blog so that my readers know what happens to a) women who speak the truth and b) walkaways from the Quiverfull movement.

    I am *so* sorry that all of these things have happened … and am gratified by the strength and solidarity I see displayed amongst the ladies here.

    Posted by Fiona | August 8, 2007, 5:19 pm
  66. Lucky will you contact me?

    Posted by Sis | August 8, 2007, 6:10 pm
  67. Why is that encyclopediadramatica thing still up? Why doesn’t the service provider take it down?

    Posted by Branjor | August 8, 2007, 6:14 pm
  68. Miranda, count me in on the LJ community. I’ve been having my own drama in microcosm that is making me aware of the fact that I need to speak up more and am really missing the boards. Xanga also has a feature where you can protext your posts so that only people on your “allow” list can see them..

    I don’t have a LJ yet, but that can be fixed easily enough.

    citywood, it’s having the same effect on me. I’m tired of shutting up and sitting still and pretending I don’t exist. It really hasn’t helped me much in life.

    Heart, I can imagine how difficult this must be and it’s probably bringing back some raw memories from a certain fourth of July. Please be gentle with yourself and give yourself credit for surviving so much already but know that you are too valuable to us to just give up and let these bastards win. Your voice WILL be heard. You have changed too many lives for anyone to have the power to silence you.

    We won’t let them.

    Posted by anonymom | August 8, 2007, 6:40 pm
  69. Twisty’s forum and blog are under attack. When I saw the latest new member id was femibot I had a creepy suspicion. Or, perhaps it is mere coincidence that someone would call themselves a bot, and it just so happens that a bot is what is used to trash websites and carry trojans. Ya think?
    While I sorrow for all the effort and stress these attacks cause you, I cannot help but feel a malicious glee as the feminist wave builds and the trolls battle it with bludgeons and attempt to bail the ocean with buckets.

    Posted by thebewilderness | August 8, 2007, 7:30 pm
  70. Bah! Over 160 years of feminism changing the world for the better, and these bozos think they can scare us. They have NO IDEA what women have been through, and how good at trench fighting we have become.

    Where would be a good place to consolidate all their comments so we can all point and laugh?

    Posted by MO | August 8, 2007, 7:46 pm
  71. Yup, I’ve just had a look at the raiders site, and IBTP is under attack…

    Posted by staying anon for this | August 8, 2007, 7:50 pm
  72. My blog is under attack too.

    These pathetic, pathetic little men.

    Posted by Violet Socks | August 8, 2007, 7:54 pm
  73. Sisters everything you say here is being read, and used. Have a care.

    Posted by Sis | August 8, 2007, 7:55 pm
  74. You may choose to block this, and that is fine … this is your site, do with it what you will.

    I am male, conservative, Christian, and an occasional reader of your site. To you and many of your readers, I am probably considered part of the problem. I understand that, and am certainly not here to argue about it … particularly now.

    I just wanted to express my condolences at the horrible attack you have endured, and are enduring. I may not agree with you on much, if anything – but no one should have to endure such callousness or hatred from anyone.

    I am not here to vouch for, or defend, men or any other group. I would simply like to let you know that you have at least some support from what would likely be considered an unexpected source.

    I hope your site will be back up in the near future, as I have always enjoyed reading it.


    Posted by ADE | August 8, 2007, 8:19 pm
  75. Here’s a webhosting service that specifically offers DDOS protection:

    There’s lots more, too.


    Posted by Mary Sunshine | August 8, 2007, 8:24 pm
  76. Its sad how you were treated…
    Losers like this should really be put in a cage and we should
    Laugh at them

    Really sad how they think rape is funny
    Another thing is how they steal people’s bandwidth
    Eventually they’ll get caught
    Plus the fact that they have no respect for our point of view

    You have my condolences for your lost site
    Overall they didn’t do that much damage
    Undertake action against them

    Posted by sister007 | August 8, 2007, 8:26 pm
  77. is a compromised email that they will attempt to infiltrate with. I think it’s safest if you don’t unscreen this comment

    Posted by Kenneth | August 8, 2007, 11:48 pm
  78. They want attention because they’re pathetic. Ban them and delete them. Change your passwords. Report them. They’ve left a trail too. Follow it.

    Posted by ginmar | August 9, 2007, 3:25 am
  79. So there is a way to protect against these attacks? I hope that is not sales hype! Thanks for the info, Mary Sunshine!

    Fox did a story on previous lulz attacks.

    Someone by the name of fembot commented on my blog Saturday. The comment seemed legitimate, but who knows?

    The whois on encyclopediadramatica shows this:
    Meta Keywords: Main Page,13 year old boy,16-year-old girl,4chan,Anonymous,Applemilk1988,Bleedingelite,Brad,Bullshit,Cheryl Lindsey Seelhoff,ED IRC

    The host is Private Registrant
    DreamHost Web Hosting
    417 Associated Rd #324
    Brea, CA 92821

    Maybe if they get enough complaints, they will pull the site, but not if they are in cahoots with the lulz gang. There is some scary legalese on the whois site about redistributing the information. Maybe I should care about that, but at this point, I do not. We have a legitimate complaint, whether the law thinks so or not.

    Posted by Aletha | August 9, 2007, 4:53 am
  80. Dear Heart,

    I’m so sorry to hear what has happened to your website. I’m sure it will be fixed and back, up and running. This kind of attacks to websites is not new and this is the ISP’s responsibility to protect the websites from attacks. If your ISP didn’t fix it, you can always change it.

    But apart from that, I just wanted to say I sympathize with you. Five years ago my Persian blog was hacked and somebody put pornographic pictures on it, putting my real name on the pictures (I was an anonymous blogger then.) My friends helped me to fix that and brought my blog back. A feminist website I was maintaining was also hacked once and pornographic pictures were put on it. I have received a lot of harassing emails in the past 6 years that I’ve been blogging in Persian. Sometimes I receive harassing comments which has forced me to moderate my comments. I’ve often been called a whore, because of writing about feminism, sexual rights, gender quality, etc. My strategy has always been ignoring the men (and sometimes women) who harass me, just because they feel their power or position is being threatened by a woman who is speaking up. Ignoring them is the best strategy, because these kind of people need our attention so much.

    Please don’t ever lose hope. Feel happy and encouraged that you’ve been so effective that somebody feels threatened to the extent that he wants to shut your website. This means your message has hit those who should!

    I’ll hope I’ll see your website up and running soon.

    With love and in Solidarity,
    Lady Sun

    p.s. I’ve changed my blog address from to (yes, we’re now neighbors in WordPress!)

    Posted by ladysun | August 9, 2007, 5:05 am
  81. Very sorry for what has taken place, Heart. But no wonder they do it, you and women here see the reality and say it out loud. Teh menz don’t like it. So they do what they always have done: use violence to crush those who do not keep silent and grovel and serve the self appointed masters. If you were insignificant, they would not have bothered.

    As I have said before, I say it again. I am not surprised. There isn’t anything a man or men could do that we, as girls and women haven’t experienced before. It all has been done to us over and over and over again. There are new tools, of course, but the actions are always the same and the thought and the feeling behind those actions. This does not crush me. It makes me more determined and steadfast. This is also a good reminder on who our real enemy is: it isn’t other feminists, it isn’t other women, it is the men.

    Posted by Danu | August 9, 2007, 6:18 am
  82. the problem is what heart experienced isn’t necessarily a true DDoS so much as a rampaging mob. It’s why’s webhost is having even more of a problem with distinguishing between attack and legit traffic than normal. DDoS mitigation does exist, but it tends to be very expensive and out of the reach of most people.

    Posted by Erin | August 9, 2007, 11:59 am
  83. Ladysun, do you, by any chance, speak Farsi? If so, can you help with this blog post of Heart’s from just a few days ago?

    Heaven knows I was no help.

    I hope it is OK with both you and Heart that I inserted this request into this particular thread.

    Posted by Branjor | August 9, 2007, 12:02 pm
  84. That first link Mary Sunshine found is looking really good to me right now. If that web service provider of mine cannot protect customers, a better deal is out there staring me in the face. Migrating the blog might be some trouble since WordPress is not one of their offered blogs. We have some technical questions for them about that, but otherwise the service provider has been warned about losing a loyal customer. They owned the original provider, never had any trouble to speak of, besides stumbling on some unexpected downtime, though a lot of hits since Heart announced she is running. Nothing like the assault of lulz. I saw a hit graph. Hit logs, one minute slice sent to service provider, nearly a megabyte text of repeated loads of images listed on the raep list, gigaloader all over the place. The Legion followed instructions well. Time to move, I am thinking. A little more research, but it appears, there is a way to combat these attacks. We will see soon enough, judging by how often that incitement gets updated.

    Sis, word to the wise about having a care. This info is put out publicly on purpose.

    Posted by Aletha | August 9, 2007, 1:58 pm
  85. Came here through a link from a friend, and I’m pissed off and appalled at what’s been done to you. What can I do to help, besides get the word out?

    Posted by Angry Grrl | August 9, 2007, 2:27 pm
  86. Heart, they don’t win, because their own actions have proven you, and all of us, right. As ADE shows, people of all stripes are going to find this abhorrent and be repelled from association with anything involving men’s rights/anti-feminism when men show their true colors like this.

    But you know, it just fucking floors me that they go around whining about freedom of speech and how we’re so against it and they’re so for it, yet you don’t see any of us trying to take down their websites or threatening them, do you? No, because they’re the ones who hate freedom (and who don’t have lives). And we are NOT going to let them forget this. Every time one of them opens their pathetic, whiny, sniveling little mouths about us wanting to take away their free speech, we’re going to remind them of this. And IBTP, where they did the same thing. And Freesoil, where they did the same thing. And Shakesville, where they did the same thing. We’re going to pound these events into their heads, and the heads of anybody who’s on the fence. Quite often it’s the oppressors’ own actions that lead to their demise — just look at Ireland. Their freedom came largely as a result of the British police’s brutal response to the Easter Rising rebellion. Before that, the Irish public wasn’t united in their desire for independence, but once their oppressors showed their true colors, there was a sea change. And today Ireland is thriving beyond anything my awesome Irish-American grandmother could ever have imagined. We WILL win, and the most satisfying part of all is that we’re going to win with the unwitting help of those who want to crush us. Their hatred will be their undoing.

    Posted by mekhit | August 9, 2007, 5:17 pm
  87. Stay strong, Heart.

    May all rapists and other terrorists of women, on and offline, die an untimely and unnatural death. ASAP.

    Posted by Julian | August 9, 2007, 7:11 pm
  88. Thanks Mekhit! What interests me is the websites they try to take down vs. the ones they do not. You don’t see them taking down the pedophile and the vile websites. How is it that they are so threatened by us angry women?

    Posted by Kiuku | August 9, 2007, 9:09 pm
  89. Submitted anonymously FYI Heart. You don’t really need to publish this either, but I figured you might find it useful.

    You all shouldn’t worry too much about the attacks currently being purpotrated on various feminist and radical feminist sites, blogs, etc. While they are certainly vile, silencing, harassing etc. they aren’t likely to last that long as the sources of these attacks tend to get bored with their targets fairly quickly and move on.

    They tend to attack other sites either by spam, comment abuse, or bandwidth over usage somewhat indiscriminately and mostly for the reaction. This is entertainment to most of them and they’re mostly just laughing at your reactions. This is certainly not intended to defend or minimize their actions but rather to say that you’ll all likely weather this storm just fine and that more likely than not they’ll soon move on and things will get back to normal, such as it is.

    Unfortunately the law is not likely to be much help though. These sites have law enforcement contacted about them on a regular basis and have never been successfully shut down or stopped though those channels. Mostly its the very nature of the way the sites are constructed (they keep IP logs for a very very short amount of time thus making it extremely difficult to track the posters of individual messages) plus the vast majority of them know how to hide their IP addresses or how to just skirt laws against denial of service attacks (basically simply reloading a web page cannot generally be considered a Dos attack even though if enough people do it at the same time it will consume massive amounts of bandwidth).

    Generally the fastest way to get rid of these people is simply to ignore them completely and to deny them the satisfaction and laughs they get from seeing their victims acknowledge their success at disrupting their sites and lives. The less they see about themselves and the disruption they’ve caused the less successful they feel and the more likely they are to move on to another target. I do realize how shitty a solution this is but no site on the internet has yet found a successful way to fight back directly against these people, ever, to my knowledge. Their user bases are simply too massive and the volume of participation they can generate for harassment campaigns is simply too large. The most effective responses have tended to be those that have simply bored them into moving on.

    On the other hand, these sites are also pretty adept at finding peoples personal information so you should warn everyone to protect that as much as possible and to be ready to report harassing phone calls to the police as those are the most likely to be actionable and to get the perpetrators caught if they occur, as many of these people are much sloppier at concealing their identities on the phone than online. Also you should all try to make sure to have strong passwords (i.e. hard to guess letters, numbers, etc.) on all your email accounts, myspace, etc. as they can and will attempt to hack into these. The only comforting thing I can say about these people is that there has never been a known case of them moving from harassing online and by phone to actually harassing or attacking people in person in all the hundreds if not thousands of ‘raids’ they’ve conducted over the years.

    I sincerely hope you and the rest of the radical feminist blogosphere don’t find your invaluable work disrupted too much by their stupidity.

    Posted by grant | August 9, 2007, 10:31 pm
  90. Honestly, I don’t think that the responses here truly get the… reasons behind these abhorrent attacks. Danu, luckynkl, and others–your words are great and encouraging, but as someone who is more familiar with ‘Anonymous,’ I have to say that I don’t agree. I don’t think they’re a male-power group angered by the assertions of strong, intelligent women. I don’t really believe that they have much of an agenda at all, let alone one as focused as that.

    On the sites they call home (4chan, 7chan, and others–really, they’re vile, check them out at your own risk)… the default state for posters is enforced Anonymity. Here, we know who’s posting because they have to label themselves (even if it can be fraudulent as some of the attackers have demonstrated)… on a site like 4chan, unless you purposefully identify yourself, you are faceless, you are anonymous.

    Freudians would have a field day with ‘Anonymous,’ because in many ways they seem to be the unrestrained Id of the Internet. Because they are faceless on the Internet, they can behave however they want, say whatever they want, act however they want without fear of reprisal. They will laugh at misery, joke about tragedies, and make fun of the weak. Anonymous is the dark side of humanity–both male and female; there’s no way of knowing how much of the population is female, but there definitely are women in their number (though probably significantly outnumbered by the men).

    I can’t agree that they do the awful things they do because they are men conspiring to suppress women (even if there weren’t other women amongst them). Anonymous seems to hate everybody equally; they’ll invade racist hate sites, some of their most ardent foes are white males, et cetera. Heart and the other bloggers who have suffered attacks are simply doing so because Anonymous decided it would be funny.

    It’s awful and sickening, but that’s what they do. The good part, though, is that because they’re so capricious and unrestrained, is that they tend to lose interest and burn out quickly. So take heart, please–once we weather the storm and show no indication we’re going to back down, they’ll get bored and find somebody else to harass

    Posted by Rose | August 9, 2007, 10:41 pm
  91. “Rose” is completely offbase. They seem to get a kick out of claiming a vast number of female’s amongst their cadre. They’re lying. The idea that they’ll attack anyone is just like crap that Howard Stern defenders toss out about being an equal opportunity offender. If that were true they wouldn’t be claiming to be trying to get anti-feminist boards (and even pro-porn feminists) to cough up info on who to target next for “raep.”

    All these helpful people posting all this important and “reasoned” info about these men, just trying to do us a favor, eh? Nah thanks.

    “don’t struggle and they’ll go hurt someone else after they get bored hurting you!”

    Yeah, wonderful advice.

    Posted by anyonymous womenspace regular | August 10, 2007, 12:09 am
  92. I have to disagree, Rose. There are women among the anti-feminist ranks, and it is specifically anti-feminism that makes a site like this an “ok” target. Hackers always look for “ok” targets in which to direct their mischief, but these guys aren’t hackers, just kidz.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 10, 2007, 12:25 am
  93. That’s the nature of the anonymous mob. Just like the KKK and other losers, they gather their courage from their anonymity, without realizing that nothing is truly anonymous.

    Posted by QB | August 10, 2007, 1:04 am
  94. I doubt that they have a ‘vast number’ of females in the horde, but they do have some; the pictures on the Encyclopedia Dramatica entry show that if nothing other than their twisted sense of humor.

    I’m not saying that these attacks aren’t anti-feminist in motivation; Heart and the others are CLEARLY being targeted because of what they say and write. However, I don’t see these attacks as part of a larger anti-feminist agenda. Like Kiuku said–I’d be honestly shocked if a significant number of the attackers were over twenty-one. ‘Anonymous’ has raided MySpace tribute sites to suicide victims, they recently focused their energy on exposing and attacking a girl whose pictures of her engaging in acts of bestiality were circling the Internet.

    Of COURSE they decided to mark Heart, BitingBeaver and the other victims as their targets because of what they were saying, but I simply don’t believe these attacks (of a clearly anti-feminist nature) are indicative of an anti-feminist agenda. All this is, is twisted children hiding behind the veil of anonyminity to get their thrills and laughs.

    Anonymous Womenspace Regular, of course I’m not suggesting we all stop struggling or submit. However, I’m not entirely certain what exactly it is we -can- do other than refuse to knuckle under and weather the storm. The US government and Department of “Homeland Security” couldn’t shut them down after the bomb threat one of them pulled. If there really IS a way to shut these idiots down permanently, I’d love it and not shed a single tear over the destruction of their playground for hate–but I’m honestly not exactly sure what that way would be.

    Posted by Rose | August 10, 2007, 2:33 am
  95. I have been thinking we need some sort of support system for this thing. We need to know where to go, who can help, what can be done. We need to know we’re supported, without needing to ask for help.

    I received this comment on my blog a few days ago, after blogging about your situation:

    “Anonymoud | | | IP:

    The lady who wrote the piece on racism in Resident Evil was a racist, sensationalist ignoramus and her blog got fucked by gamers. She deserved it and if she tries anything like that again she will suffer the same fate

    The “womyn” whose forum got hacked had material on the forum advocating the murder of adolescents if they looked at pornography. This is the internet, that kind of rhetoric is not going to go down well. she should have let it go instead of of whining about it, but she didnt and now she and her cronies are being pursued by legion (as they should be)

    These women were taught a valuable lesson about the internet, DO NOT fuck with legion and DO NOT fuck with gamers. I sugest that you take note”

    Needless to say, I feel a bit threatened myself. Particularly after also receiving another comment saying they’d like to see me be raped by a horse.

    I’m so sorry your forum got cracked.

    Posted by Elaine Vigneault | August 10, 2007, 3:25 am
  96. I think that there is some validity to what Rose says. Bullies really do achieve a sense of power from hurting others, and they make a point of hurting the unpopular people, because they don’t think the authorities will mind very much, if at all. Feminists have been a target for bullying and blame practically forever.
    While they probably do hate everybody, most sociopaths do, they clearly are not targeting sites that promote hatred and cruelty. Those sites are their fellow sociopaths sites. They target women who strive to improve conditions for women. They are quite simply vandals who consider themselves entitled to rape, pillage, and plunder, by virtue of being born male. It’s not surprising that they would attack the people who dispute their entitlement. Were they not such cowards, they would be members of roving mobs in the streets. But they are cowards, and so they direct their hatred at the socially approved targets, with a screen of anonymity on the internet.
    I could be mistaken, I suppose. When they are ferreted out and their identities known, then we shall see what sort of creatures they are.

    Posted by thebewilderness | August 10, 2007, 4:02 am
  97. Honestly Rose’s glorification of this “Anonymous” is kinda creepy. It’s really not that amazing or cool Rose…

    I’ve never read any other of your posts, but in this post, you sound like an anti-feminist, “men’s rights”, male apologist type person yourself.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 10, 2007, 5:22 am
  98. emm QB I don’t think it takes a lot of courage to force down a website on the internet, with an attack that wasn’t new in 97.

    And Rose

    “”Because they are faceless on the Internet, they can behave however they want, say whatever they want, act however they want without fear of reprisal. They will laugh at misery, joke about tragedies, and make fun of the weak. Anonymous is the dark side of humanity–both male and female;”


    Yea it’s just about as dark as a goth kid hanging outside walmart.

    Don’t you think this is all just a little dramatic for what we are actually dealing with here? Your assessment just weird. Are you some kind of member of this, or something?

    I don’t care for the reasoning of rapists -or- raepists.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 10, 2007, 5:48 am
  99. These are the same types of men who shaved the heads of wymyn at Auschwitz. These are the same types of men who raped wymyn in rape camps in Bosnia. These are the same types of men who thought up the unspeakable crime of FGM.

    This is simply another manifestation of the male species’ uncontrollable desire to control wymyn, with any means and at all costs. A man’s mind cannot handle the idea of wymyn beginning the revolution and casting them off. So they set out on campaigns of terror like this to maintain the status quo.

    This makes me so angry that I’m crying and shaking as I type this. Wymyn are never free from the violence of the men, it seems, even on the internet. It’s like a classic case of womb-envy… we have the power to create, but they can only destroy and tear down.

    But we won’t be torn down. I feel the power of the Goddess in me and in all wymyn. She will give us the strength to fight these evil opppressors and take back what is rightfully ours. Years from now we can tell our daughters that we gave our all to defend our freedom.

    With Solidarity,

    Posted by Daughter of Artemis | August 10, 2007, 6:03 am
  100. I can scarecly believe it. You’ve been given everything. EVERYTHING. And you still think that this is about feminism. Open your eyes for fuck’s sake, just close your mouth and pay attention. It’s not that hard. It’s like you willfully ignore information that contradicts your preconceptions. You can’t be that obtuse, noone is.

    Yes, heart, I know you’re not going to post this, I wrote it in the off chance that you would let a differing opinion in. This isn’t about you, and it never really was, you should know that. Just lie low and it’ll blow over in a couple of days. Bring your website back up and start where you left off. Noone’s going to come after you, we don’t care. Radical opinion is necessary in any society, as it keeps it fresh and healthy, and the world knows that the american empire needs that now more than ever. I don’t agree with a thing you say, but that doesn’t mean that I want to stop you from saying it.

    Posted by Neuromancer | August 10, 2007, 6:19 am
  101. “I don’t think they’re a male-power group angered by the assertions of strong, intelligent women.”

    Sure they are. What happens to female Anony-wannabes who don’t comply to a “Tits or GTFO!” Just because the /b/tards haven’t got a coherent MRA rap doesn’t mean they aren’t a male power-group. If a young woman were to respond to that order with a refusal to exchange, defied assumptions of male entitlement, male privilege, and male dominance – if she said, “No, you fuck off and die, limpdick! Don’t you know pornography lies about women, but tells the truth about men?”, can you imagine the response?

    “Freudians would have a field day with ‘Anonymous,’ because in many ways they seem to be the unrestrained Id of the Internet.”

    Indeed. Not to mention Jungians.

    This is primal, archetypal shit. Cultural Anthropology 101. Even more than a “male-power group angered by the assertions of strong, intelligent women”, what we’re seeing is a group of young men who don’t get out much twaeking over the thought of the Big Bad Mommy who can damn well send them back where they came from if she so wished. Terrifying thought, that. But their mommy would never think a thing like that, noes. They got good mommies. Have to keep the bad mommies away. Teach her a lesson. Rape the Big Bad Mommy. Invite the neighborhood. Gang rape the proxy mommy. All the proxy mommies. By proxy. Anonymously. Displace the Evil Destroying Mother with righteous RaptorJeebus. We can be heroes. We are really good boys. Really. IRL.

    It’s not insignificant nor accidental that they identify with a 13 year old boy (who not incidently has a real name) who likes to look at naked pictures, even if it makes a real mom mad. Or sad. Or scared.

    Truth is their moms had those same thoughts. Of course she did. But it’s not like she’d tell them when she did. Should she fess up? You think? Talk about truly epic lulz. RaptorJeebus would be so pleased. With lots of lasers.

    Posted by aNOMOS | August 10, 2007, 6:46 am
  102. I am really wishing for that private forum. Is it a pipedream? Does true security from determined enemies exist? Maybe, maybe not, but here any eyes can read and find excuses to make our lives miserable, or worse. I am concerned about vendettas. Are we egging this Legion on? Is it wise to vent like this on a public forum? Is it too dangerous for us to exercise free speech, even on WordPress? Should we be giving them any unnecessary information? All these concern me, since in my own defiant way I did some of all of that, and got called on it. Bottom line, are we inflaming men who will resort to physical violence? Will they cross that line? Maybe those in greatest danger will have to inform law enforcement. I am greatly troubled by all this. The threats might not all be empty. I cannot make these judgment calls, not being one of the primary targets. The strategy conference is meant to confer about such issues. I might just do some service provider shopping and lay low for awhile.

    Heart, if you think any of my concerns warrant it, perhaps you should yank that previous comment of mine. Someone we respect privately objected to it most sternly, made me rethink my approach to this matter. I have to think about what this all means. I am not as security conscious as I should be. I get so sick of it, but I know that is part of the price a radfem pays, just for existing in such a hostile world.

    Posted by Aletha | August 10, 2007, 7:43 am
  103. I apologize, I’ve really been unclear in my statements so far (and for the record, yes, I visited this site for a while before growing so damn disgusted about a year ago)…

    “Honestly Rose’s glorification of this “Anonymous” is kinda creepy. It’s really not that amazing or cool Rose…

    I’ve never read any other of your posts, but in this post, you sound like an anti-feminist, “men’s rights”, male apologist type person yourself.”

    Please make no mistake, I’m not trying to glorify them, I’m explaining as they see themselves–some sort of grand machine of judgment (in reality, twisted little basement geeks getting their rocks off by imposing their bully tendencies on the internet where they can’t in reality.

    I HAVEN’T posted before, because it was honestly only because of these events that I was linked to these forums in the first place. And while I hardly think my own personal beliefs are really relevant to the matter, I consider myself an ardent feminist–perhaps less ‘radical’ than some, but I wanted to offer my support.


    Yea it’s just about as dark as a goth kid hanging outside walmart.

    Don’t you think this is all just a little dramatic for what we are actually dealing with here? Your assessment just weird. Are you some kind of member of this, or something? ”

    Again, that’s how they tend to see ‘themselves.’ The only difference I’d really paint between them and the hypothetical ‘goth kid’ is that they actually act on their malicious tendencies.


    Thank you for saying what I was trying to say, only… you know, actually saying it. I apologize again, I’ve never really been good at getting my point across. But while I do agree with you in that these ATTACKS are spurred by anti-feminist hate, I still can’t see it as part of a larger agenda–they’re simply bullies randomly and clumsily lashing out at whatever raises their pigheaded wrath right now.

    But really, you said what I wanted to say, and much better than I ever could.

    Anyway, I can’t really see this line of conversation going anywhere, so Heart and the rest, my support and love and may your courage be blessed.

    Posted by Rose | August 10, 2007, 8:25 am
  104. “Honestly Rose’s glorification of this “Anonymous” is kinda creepy. It’s really not that amazing or cool Rose…”

    Probably because Rose is anonymous. He’s probably used to lying to mommy and mommy believing him.

    Posted by delphyne | August 10, 2007, 1:29 pm
  105. Look Proxy is not anonymous, no matter how anonymous the proxy they used. If they did it from their home computers they will get slapped. I could even imagine these guys using transparent ones and imagining they are anonymous.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 10, 2007, 4:25 pm
  106. From loser’s comment to Elaine Vigneault’s blog:
    ***The “womyn” whose forum got hacked had material on the forum advocating the murder of adolescents if they looked at pornography.***

    They sure don’t give a damn about truth or accuracy, do they?

    Posted by Branjor | August 10, 2007, 4:58 pm
  107. I read this post last night and then completely freaked, staying up for hours reading MRA sites and trying to wrap my head around the hatred. (I specialize in self-defeating behaviors, obviously.) Too floored then to comment here. Woke up nauseous. Back now with nothing profound to add to the discussion, just wanted to express my unreserved solidarity with you, my horror at what’s happened, my sadness for what you have (hopefully not irrevocably?) lost, my anger on your behalf that is so overwhelming I can hardly dwell on it long enough to give it that name, anger.

    Was further pissed when I read Violet’s recent and very excellent post It’s not about legalizing rape so much as declaring it a metaphysical impossibility and read her comments:

    Comments being temporarily shut down because the blog is being attacked by human stains (MRAs/pro-porn hackers).

    So it’s everywhere, it’s all of us. Read Jill @ Feministe earlier today via the feed at feministblogs expressing solidarity with you as well, then (surprise) got a WordPress database error later when I tried to access the post directly at the Feministe site. Certainly, the possibility that Feministe subsequently got hacked is more than plausible.

    How sadly prescient, then – this sentence from the now inaccessible post:

    None of these women [referring to you and Biting Beaver] brought the attacks on themselves. And even if you don’t like what they have to say, the ongoing strikes against feminist blogs, coupled with the rape threats and the death threats, threaten all of us.


    Posted by Victoria Marinelli | August 10, 2007, 5:27 pm
  108. **The “womyn” whose forum got hacked had material on the forum advocating the murder of adolescents if they looked at pornography.**

    Yeah, notice how they try to hide their mysogyny by calling it “murder of adolescents” when what they really mean to say is “murder of boys.” If it was the murder of girls that were being advocated those assholes would be jerking off to it. X(

    Plus nowhere on that forum was there any material that “advocated” the murder of ANYONE. . bah.

    Posted by Chloe | August 10, 2007, 11:13 pm
  109. “Don’t you know pornography lies about women, but tells the truth about men?”, can you imagine the response?” – quoted from a feminist here

    instead of hiding and not aprroving a truthful, tell me this suposed truth, i make this request.

    Posted by Ant | August 11, 2007, 2:43 pm
  110. Danu, luckynkl, and others–your words are great and encouraging, but as someone who is more familiar with ‘Anonymous,’ I have to say that I don’t agree. I don’t think they’re a male-power group angered by the assertions of strong, intelligent women.

    **Lucky scratches head.** Where did I ever say THAT?

    Male-power group, my ass. Sorry, but these mutants are amateurs. That became pretty obvious to me when I came home from work on Wednesday and found the bandwidth on one of my websites had been exceeded and anonymous was bragging about it and doing a little happy dance. Dramatica, schmatica. Drama queen is more like it. A premature ejaculator to boot. I had my site up and running again 5 minutes after I got home. These geniuses hit a dummy board. Just some software I was testing out to see how it looked. That’s how bright they are. They hit a site I rarely use (no doubt googled) and an empty test board. They’re obviously not the brightest crayons in the box. When I brought my site back up, they squealed like little piggies and shrieked with dismay. “Burn her with fire,” they said. Oh, pu-lease. Grow up. That’s so 15th century.

    Nah, they’re no crackers. That’s giving these mutants way too much credit. Which is totally undeserved. They’re called “kiddie scripts.” Called such because any 10 year old can google the scripts, which have been floating around the net for years, and use them. You didn’t actually think these mutants had any brains or skills, did you? Nah, they steal the work of real grown-ups and use it to pull middle school pranks. Grown-ups, who unlike them, actually passed middle school and have IQs higher than doorknobs. At best, these mutants aren’t much more than wannabes and common thieves.

    Trying to trace the IPs is a waste of time. Remember, real grown-ups wrote the scripts. So the IPs are spoofed giving the impression that the assaults are coming from all over the globe. Techies don’t waste their time chasing these rainbows. Instead, they harden up their servers and routers and seal off any vulnerabilities that the dDos scripts might exploit. IOWs, there isn’t much one can do about it. The host of the one’s website has to provide the security. So bascially all the mutants proved is that some of our hosts suck and are lax in security.

    The mutants hit my website again the following morning. Apparently it took them all afternoon and night to google up another script. Or maybe their mommies just put them to bed early without any milk, cookies or cartoons. I saw the attack begin and shut them down again. Curses! Foiled again! But I knew it was only a temporary fix. The host of this site obviously had no dDos protection to speak of. And these mutants were now on a mission and had something to prove. Ho hum. But I realized that I had already given these mutants too much of my time. Granting the penis-people one minute of my time and energy is one minute too many. They’re a total waste of it. It diverts my attention and takes my focus off of women and puts it on them. Which would be the whole point of it. So it was time to go “snip” and cut the apron strings. So I let it all go and went off to work knowing that while the cat was away, the mice would play, and the site would be down by the time I got home. But an impeccable warrior always picks her own time and place and doesn’t allow an adversary to choose it for her. Especially one that is as childish as this one is.

    As for being angered and threatened by strong, intelligent women, gimme a break These mutants are classic closet cases. They’re not interested in women, silly. What they’re interested in is what other men think of them. It’s daddy’s approval they seek. They’re pathetically insecure about being men and have some serious issues with their masculinity and sexuality. Men often try to cover up their gayness with misogyny. It’s not exactly a national secret.

    As for being dangerous, nah. Paper tigers don’t tend to be very ferocious. But it’s never wise to turn one’s back on a coward.

    In the meanwhile, please take out any links to your sites, including avatars, clean up your history and shut down your computer when not in use. They’re pinging and using your own IPs and bandwidth to suck us dry. Which was the whole purpose of collecting our email addresses and sending us that childish email. That is how they make it appear that the attacks are coming from all over the globe. Don’t be surprised if one of the attacking IPs turns out to be your own.

    Posted by Luckynkl | August 11, 2007, 2:52 pm
  111. Ok, I have upped the security on the feminist new caprica lj community. It’s now friends-locked and only members will be able to comment.

    You’ll need to get livejournal accounts (you can get free ones). I will contact women who already have blogs directly to set up a secure method of joining the community.

    Heart, I apologize for using Margins this way, but I don’t really have any other way to contact anyone. Please take this down if you wish, and I’d be happy to have you as a member.

    Posted by Miranda | August 11, 2007, 5:02 pm
  112. “Vesper Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    “It is time anonymous; The JB phishing is over and we need to take this one step beyond. It’s time to phish out the US presidential candidate’s myspace accounts. We all know how easy this will be, and we know the lulz that will quickly follow on mainstream broadcast television in the name of ebaumsworld.

    That is why we must begin this attack. Starting with Giuliani.”

    It looks like Holly was right, I looked at that page that she linked, and now they want to start attacking U.S. presidential candidates. I didn’t see anything to do with feminism, except a thread from a couple of days ago. Maybe they have moved on.”

    I saw this on Feministe. Hopefully she’s right.

    Posted by Alicia | August 11, 2007, 7:14 pm
  113. Miranda – I’d be careful just how much info you give out on here…

    Posted by staying anon for this | August 11, 2007, 9:32 pm
  114. 100 Luckynkl

    I’m not sure that it matters anymore. I looked at their site that was posted above. I don’t see anything to do with feminism or BB anymore. It looks like they’re going to attack american presidential candidates now.

    Maybe they’ve moved on?

    “Anonymous 07/08/10(Fri)19:48 No.49287 [Reply]

    It is time anonymous; The JB phishing is over and we need to take this one step beyond. It’s time to phish out the US presidential candidate’s myspace accounts. We all know how easy this will be, and we know the lulz that will quickly follow on mainstream broadcast television in the name of ebaumsworld.

    That is why we must begin this attack. Starting with Giuliani.”

    Posted by Allison | August 11, 2007, 11:06 pm
  115. Lucky, you are awesome. Seriously. 😀

    Posted by Chloe | August 11, 2007, 11:44 pm
  116. I’m being as careful as I can.

    Posted by Miranda | August 12, 2007, 1:52 am
  117. Has anyone here contacted me in an attempt to join?

    Posted by Miranda | August 12, 2007, 1:53 am
  118. Miranda – here is not a suitable place.

    Posted by staying anon for this | August 12, 2007, 2:25 am
  119. Lucky, so wonderfully spot on.

    Just dropping by to say that this subject should not be discussed on public blogs. That is what these little loser geeks crave, the attention.

    Posted by storm | August 12, 2007, 8:03 am
  120. Ok, probably not. It was the best I could think of at the time, but I’ll stop. Apologies all around.

    Posted by Miranda | August 12, 2007, 12:01 pm
  121. Here is an interesting website about DDOS attacks:

    For those of you who don’t have the time or inclination to read through the whole thing, the most important part is the quick and easy check for zombie bots:

    “”IRC Bots” are among the newer breed of Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) agents deployed by the Internet’s most active hackers. Whenever an IRC Bot hosting Windows PC is started, the Bot waits for the system to finish booting, then connects to a previously designated IRC server. Using a private password key, it joins a secret IRC channel that is not visible to other users of the IRC server . . . and awaits commands.”

    Open an MS-DOS Command prompt (terminal) window. I believe it is located in “Accessories” on XP, but I may be misremembering so you may have to look around a bit. Type in:

    netstat -an | find “:6667”

    then press the “Enter” key. If a line resembling the one shown below is NOT displayed, your computer does not have an open connection to an IRC server running on the standard IRC port. If, however, you see something like this:


    . . . then the only question remaining is how quickly you can disconnect your PC from the Internet!

    A second and equally useful test can also be performed. Since IRC servers generally require the presence of an “Ident” server on the client machine, IRC clients almost always include a local “Ident server” to keep the remote IRC server happy. Every one of the Zombie/Bots I have examined does this. Therefore, the detection of an Ident server running in your machine would be another good cause for alarm. To quickly check for an Ident server, type the following command at an MS-DOS Prompt:

    netstat -an | find “:113 ”

    As before, a blank line indicates that there is no Ident server running on the default Ident port of “113”. (Note the “space” after the 113 and before the closing double-quote.) If, however, you see something like this:


    . . . then it’s probably time to pull the plug on your cable-modem!”


    Miranda, I look forward to getting to know you and the rest of the LJ community at a more appropriate time.

    Posted by anonymom | August 12, 2007, 12:29 pm
  122. Men will say and do the darndest things when revolution looms nearer.
    Stay strong.
    You are by no means alone Heart.

    Posted by pisaquari | August 12, 2007, 3:21 pm
  123. Thebewilderness — I tried to contact you the other day at T’s, but it said your membership had been canceled (by you, not a ban).

    I had no idea how much I’d come to rely on Hearrrt’s forum, and how badly I miss the womYn who gathered there. I’ve been looking for a replacement, but apparently there are NO “women only” spaces *anywhere*.

    I can’t go anywhere on the ‘net and say, “men suck, here’s why, and I’m sick of it” without one of three things happening

    • The comment never gets posted — even though misogyny is allowed absolutely *everywhere* in one form or another.
    • A chorus of feminists pop up chanting, “but what about my Nigel!”
    • Our good buddy Nigel shows up insisting that “most men aren’t like that!” — as if society is composed of 3.4 billion Nigels and only a *few* bad apples. Obviously that is not true, or we wouldn’t even HAVE a patriarchy.

    What the heck is wrong with wanting to be left alone, to not have to hear that “noble menz” propaganda, to have *one lousy space* free from the people who make my life – and the lives of all my sisters – miserable? What does it say when even a supposedly radical feminist website would rather defend teh menz?

    “racism hurts whites too” “patriarchy hurts men too”. NO IT DOESN”T. Those are both lies, designed to alleviate guilt and justify denial. You notice that no one is stupid enough to spew the first lie, but most everybody spews the second. They are both the same lie, but again, nobody notices.

    I am going to start blogging soon, and if I don’t offend *absolutely everybody* at least once, then I will have failed. THE RADICAL TRUTH CUTS TO THE HEART, AND IT FREAKING HURTS.

    Posted by mAndrea | August 12, 2007, 4:59 pm
  124. mAndrea, I look forward to it. I cannot even begin to describe how much I miss you all and how much I need you right now, although I was not a particularly eloquent or frequent poster and was not active enough in the blogosphere to have any alternate means of contact floating around out there, either for you all to find me or for me to find you. I think Looking Glass might know how to get ahold of me but I’m not sure, and I can certainly understand if Heart feels that it is not a good idea to extend too much trust at this point. There isn’t a darned thing I can do about it at this late date except keep on reading the books that you have recommended and remember what I remember and try to live by what I learned and become a person you would have been proud to have as a friend if the circumstances had been different.

    Many of you, such as BB and mAndrea, are very new friends to me who I felt almost an instant connection to. Lucky was there for me in the most perfect way at a very difficult time in my life. Heart and I go way back to her “Old World” in a one sided, hero-worship of a celebrity kind of way and it was such a thrill to get to know her as the down to earth, ordinary person, and yes, friend and mentor she became after I succeeded in finding out “what happened next” after the antitrust suit.

    Being part of this community has changed my life. I no longer turn everything inward and blame myself for things I have no control over. I longer “suck it up” and cringe in corners in fear.

    I even talk about some of the issues we have discussed and I have learned about with other womYn who are of the “No, no, no! I’m not a Feminist!” persuasion and I do believe I have gotten through to them when they needed to hear things just as badly as I needed to hear what Lucky had to say to my distraught post on the “Introductions” forum about two years ago.

    It seems pathetic to me as I mourn the loss of a community, but I know somewhere deep down that it is the ultimate blow to these asshats that an otherwise defeated, used up and discarded fuckhole is standing up for herself and spreading what they tried to silence to womYn who would not otherwise be exposed to the ideas.

    And I’m willing to bet I’m living up to the handle I chose, unoriginal as it may be, and that there are many other anonymous mothers and anonymous wives and anonymous formerly docile and obedient womYn out there who are doing the same thing.

    They didn’t win, you did; the fear that used to be a constant part of my life is losing its grip on me; Nigel himself has no power over me.

    Someday I do believe that we will meet again in a safer place where I feel more comfortable revealing more about who I am and what I have lived through and what my current circumstances are.

    I’m not going to capitulate to their terrrorism and I’m not going to go away.

    Looking Glass, if you’re reading it, thank you so much for the book; neither you nor I had any idea how appropriate and timely it would be or how much I would need it when it arrived.

    More computer advice: they are most likely to go after Microsoft machines with a cable connection. Lucky’s advice to shut down the machine when not in use (or just unplug the network connection for the night) has been known to completely solve the problem in some cases.

    Posted by anonymom | August 12, 2007, 6:38 pm
  125. Sorry all this happened here, and I am just delurking to say I have never witnessed such a lame and infantile subculture as these twits who attacked you. Making pompous, adolescent professions of jaded nihilism while staging a wince-inducingly earnest “Save the Masturbator!” campaign makes the most dimmwitted PETA direct action look in comparison like the Birmingham Bus Boycott. Can’t understand how they don’t die of embarrassment.

    Posted by Theroigne | August 12, 2007, 9:49 pm
  126. A man can be good, even great–there is nobody in this world I trust more than my three brothers; and most of the men I have known as friends, coworkers and classmates have been intelligent, respectful, and kind… most of them. Not nearly all of them, which leads into the fact that–

    –men, as a plural group entity, suck.

    And I wish I knew why. I’d like to believe it was age; that the patriarchy is just a dying relic of generations past… but obviously, these attacks and the actions of many young boys and men show otherwise. I love my brothers with all of my heart, I love my boyfriend, and I just wish I knew why a wonderful ‘man’ becomes part of ‘the men.’

    Posted by Rose | August 13, 2007, 1:46 am
  127. “What the heck is wrong with wanting to be left alone, to not have to hear that “noble menz” propaganda, to have *one lousy space* free from the people who make my life – and the lives of all my sisters – miserable? What does it say when even a supposedly radical feminist website would rather defend teh menz?

    “racism hurts whites too” “patriarchy hurts men too”. NO IT DOESN”T. Those are both lies, designed to alleviate guilt and justify denial. You notice that no one is stupid enough to spew the first lie, but most everybody spews the second. They are both the same lie, but again, nobody notices.”

    Wow. I agree.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 13, 2007, 8:48 pm
  128. Rose,

    You wonder why he becomes part of the men? I’m confused by your dilemna. Why he (willingly) becomes part of the men and does patriarchal things or why we lump him in with the men or why he has to get lumped in by feminism or feminists?

    Personally, I expect people to act decently. The bad men do not make the good men good by comparison. Their goodness, if it is there, makes them good. For instance, is the Spencer guy posting on the other board nice simply because he does not want to rape and kill me? I and feminists EXPECT men and everyone to act humanely and with decency towards all people in an equitable, fair, way which means -no patriarchy- and it means -no racism-. I expect that of people and therefore shouldn’t have to feel particularly grateful for good men, and in fact feel no gratitude for “good” men, since that is nothing less than what I expect of other people. Feeling grateful for this would validate my oppressed status, which I shouldn’t do here.

    Unfortunately, as a feminist, I also believe that all wonderful men are part of the group “men” and that men oppress women and benefit from it. Unless they reject benefiting from female oppression, which clearly some do, they are inalienable from it. Can black people realize that they are oppressed by white people w/o people getting upset at the possibility of some white people who don’t oppress black people getting a bad reputation or being unfairly generalized?

    Posted by Kiuku | August 13, 2007, 9:06 pm
  129. In my experience, a lot of the so-called wonderful men are only wonderful men to the females that they feel they have some kind of property attachment to: what they believe to be their women. Their wife. Their sister. Their friend. Their coworker. And I don’t see any need to romanticise this as men protecting “their women” and somehow wonderful. But I see it for what it is, because these same men often will buy women to abuse for sexual purposes, and see no problem abusing someone because she is a “whore” or a “slut” or see no problem with a woman being abused who is a “whore” or a “slut” as long as she isn’t their sister, and because she is not one of their women or because she is one of the enemies women. That’s how oppression works. If you are just a good woman and you do what good women do you won’t have it coming to you and you should definitely be grateful when some or all of your owners don’t abuse you.

    Crazy enough some forms of feminism today espouse these weird romantic views of Patriarchal oppression. Just go to ifeminist with that Wendy person to see what I mean.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 13, 2007, 9:27 pm
  130. And while we’re waiting:

    Janis Joplin – Cry Baby (live in Toronto 1970)


    Posted by Mary Sunshine | August 13, 2007, 11:48 pm
  131. What are we waiting for? 😀
    That was awesome, Mary! I envy Janis Joplin’s voice. .

    Posted by Chloe | August 14, 2007, 1:46 am
  132. you think your male coworkers are wonderful? You think your male friends are wonderful? Try discussing feminism with them. They don’t stand for women..they don’t stand for you. They may agree that they don’t think women should be oppressed, but they aren’t going to give up their benefits. My (former) male friend of 7 years. Obviously nothing like a real friend..while agreeing that men oppress women, after discussing how women are oppressed and degraded through sexuality and pornography, offers me such beautiful, heart felt, empathetic advise as :

    “You need to spend more time understanding men”

    “Just because we like to fuck does not mean we want to enslave you”

    (9:47:34 PM): i had this professor

    (9:47:51 PM): when i was taking a graphics design class at pace university

    (9:48:12 PM): who was really into holocaust studies

    me (9:48:12 PM): yea

    (9:48:27 PM): so he just changed the class into a holocaust studies class

    me (9:48:45 PM): heh

    (9:48:49 PM): and because i was at an accounting school (my mom worked there so i got free tuition)

    (9:48:59 PM): all the kids in the class went along with it

    (9:49:04 PM): because they wanted the easy A

    (9:49:20 PM): my assignments were like

    (9:49:53 PM): design an alternate cover for The Diary of Anne Frank

    me (9:50:09 PM): heh

    (9:50:11 PM): and go see Schindler

    (9:50:13 PM): ‘s List

    (9:50:20 PM): so i could be quizzed on the movie

    (9:50:31 PM): then our class trip was to the Rockland Holocaust Museum

    (9:50:46 PM): but its like

    (9:51:11 PM): a) i actually wanted to learn graphic design

    (9:51:30 PM): b) one can’t eat drink and sleep holocaust studies

    (9:51:48 PM): and just because i felt this way, didnt mean i was down with putting jews in ovens

    (9:52:40 PM): so my point is.. as your friend.. i just want to advise that you take a little less of a myopic view of things

    me (9:53:27 PM): because you didn’t want to take a holocaust class?

    (9:53:38 PM): im making a comparison

    me (9:53:42 PM): i don’t get it

    (9:53:58 PM): like noone wants the opression of women

    me (9:54:17 PM): they’re just not going to spend every waking hour trying to end it?

    me (9:54:21 PM): i get it

    (9:54:43 PM): yeah you have to take time out to live

    me (9:54:50 PM): but you forget

    me (9:54:52 PM): I”M A WOMAN

    me (9:55:00 PM): what if I were a JEW?

    ( 9:55:06 PM): and he’s a jew

    (9:55:17 PM): he should relax and teach his class.. even to german kids

    me (9:55:28 PM): how myopic of you

    (9:55:33 PM): get to know MEN better..

    me (9:55:36 PM): oh my god

    me (9:55:37 PM): dude

    me (9:55:43 PM): I don’t think I can be your friend honestly

    me (9:55:53 PM): get to know men better?

    me (9:55:56 PM): are you f*** kiddin gme

    (9:56:02 PM): just because we like to fuck, doesnt mean that we want to enslave you

    me (9:56:07 PM): FUCK YOU

    (9:56:57 PM): whoa i dont know what i did to deserve that

    These are your friends. These are all our friends.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 14, 2007, 2:16 am
  133. Yeah, Janis was definitely one of a kind. I appreciate her more now, but when I was a kid, I only liked a few of her songs as all that yelling tended to get on my last nerve after awhile. “Piece of My Heart” was probably my most favorite song of hers. But “Mercedes Benz” was the song I sang the most. I made up my own words to it.

    I did that a lot. Made up words to songs. The nuns were not pleased when I started making up words to their hymns. You do not want to know what I sang. But to give you an idea, it usually earned me a flick to the head and a dozen Hail Marys.

    Posted by Luckynkl | August 14, 2007, 5:00 am
  134. In my experience, a lot of the so-called wonderful men are only wonderful men to the females that they feel they have some kind of property attachment to: what they believe to be their women. Their wife. Their sister. Their friend. Their coworker.

    And these are the very same women, the ones under Wonderful Man’s purview, who come to feminist websites bleating about how impossible or cruel or man-hating separatism is, as if the only way to love a man is to show blind loyalty and slavish devotion. These are the same women who want to serve and educate and refine Wonderful Man (who somehow maintains his wonderfulness despite his sore need for all these improvements) and call that radical feminism.

    You’re right, Kiuku, the romanticization of women’s servitude and subordination is just sickening to behold. These kinships, these roles of mother, sister, coworker, they are our bonds, our chains. Yet some cling so desperately to those restraints. I do wonder why they also agitate so fitfully for a feminist label, though, while they’re happily serving their patriarchal duty as matrons of morality and treating your fellow human beings as you’d like to be treated even if they’re female. That sounds like mothering, despite the advanced age of some of their charges, not feminism.

    Posted by justicewalks | August 14, 2007, 11:36 am
  135. I am a hacker. I say this with only the sincerest of tones, because I do not support this kind of activity. The original meaning of ‘hacker’ was “One who enjoys playing with technology, modifying it, and making it work in ways it was not intended.”

    The modern meaning of ‘hacker’ is what the old hackers call a ‘cracker,’ someone who deliberately destroys or damages things.

    Your ISP shouldn’t be acting like this. If there is too much traffic and they feel it’s hurting their service, they should put a reasonable bandwidth cap in place for the duration of the investigation.

    If it’s traffic from the website being cracked, this would fix it. If it’s traffic from a large amount of spam, a few edits to the site and you’d receive significantly less.

    On your contact page, you give your email address to the form of username@site.TLD. You want to post it like this ‘username AT site DOT com’ or ‘usernamesitecom. This makes it so that web spiders won’t parse (interpret) your email address as an email address, and it will go unnoticed.

    The post made by anonymom that includes the netstat command isn’t strictly accurate, though informative. IRC servers aren’t always run on port 6667. Many use 6668-6669, and others use nonstandard ports. The port an IRC server uses is completely dependent upon configuration. The listening shell (or sometimes it’s a reverse bind shell, and it won’t be listening) is frequently, though not always, made with a netcat/nc executable. I would suggest running netstat from a bash/dos prompt and digging through *all* the connections made, and verify that they should be there. Assuming you still have access.

    Either way, if the machine is running Windows, I’d strongly suggest switching to an operating system that’s at least capable of being secured: some form of Unix. Debian GNU/Linux is my personal favorite. CentOS is nice too. You know, assuming the server is local and/or dedicated.

    I’m a male and a hacker. I’d just like to ask everyone not to lump me with others who would spam and crack websites and post vile threats.

    Posted by No comment | August 14, 2007, 12:12 pm
  136. Oh, and one last recommendation. You might want to look at if shared hosting is acceptable. They don’t make a lot of money because of the way they run their business. You only pay for what you use. This probably won’t be an acceptable solution if you use a lot of bandwidth.

    Posted by No comment | August 14, 2007, 12:32 pm
  137. Anonymom, I’m afraid I don’t have a way to get in touch with you anymore due to unexpected circumstances, but if you kept the package you got from me you can reconnect with me that way. We will definitely keep finding ways to network no matter what!


    Posted by lookingglass | August 14, 2007, 3:12 pm
  138. Kiuku – I’m notoriously bad at getting my point across, I’m sorry–it’s why I’m a graphics designer and not a writer! It wasn’t so much a dilemma as it was half-lament-half-rhetorical-question.

    I have three brothers, one older and two younger. The four of us are extremely close, and I consider all three of them as the people I trust and love most in this world. This isn’t because they’re just my siblings, it’s not because they’re men or whatever, it’s because they’re genuinely good people. They’re intelligent, compassionate, and respectful to both men and women (though the elder of my younger brothers had a fairly unpleasant pubescent period, he actually matured and grew out of that, which I hear can be rare in the male breed). If every other boy grew into someone like them–well, I can’t help but be a little bit biased, but I can’t think that it’d be anything but great for the world.

    When they’re with their guy friends, they don’t suddenly become Mr. Hyde. They remain the clever, open-minded and compassionate people I’ve known my entire life. It’s not like they themselves change.

    And I was just wondering where that divide comes. Where does ‘man’ (singular) become… not even ‘men’ (plural) but ‘men’ (collective)? All three of them support the feminist cause (and the aforementioned elder younger brother is one of the only men in the feminist activist group on his college campus) and treat women with respect. Is that just because of how they were raised? Is it because of something in their genes? I refuse to believe that simply having a slab of meat swinging between your legs automatically makes you a supporter of the Patriarchy. But the Patriarchy still stands despite new generations of men who by all right should be brought up in households and communities where they learn how to properly respect women. My elder brother’s wife is five months pregnant with their first child, and I have faith that if it’s a boy OR a girl it will grow up in a loving environment and taught compassion, sympathy, and respect for the people it meets.

    There ARE men like that, boys like that–but DESPITE that, the Patriarchy still stands. Is it not even malicious intent but simple ignorance? (I work in the videogame industry, a notoriously male-heavy industry… at my small company, of the 25 or so employees, only six others are female. When one of my coworkers had to take maternity leave, there weren’t any policies in place–not because of actual intent, but because it was the first time it had ever been an issue.) Or is it just a case that the group is only as smart and as forward-thinking as the lowest common denominator and that sadly you still have boys being raised by women-hating fucktards with half their teeth who will grow up with the same hatred and bigotry that’s all they’ve ever known?

    That was what I was trying to say, and I apologize if I’ve still been able to communicate clearly.

    @ Justicewalks – I don’t disagree that there are some women who do think like that. But I don’t think it’s impossible to respect and care for a man based on the merits of their character, either. I love, trust, and respect my brothers not because of our blood but because they have EARNED that love, trust, and respect. My best male friend throughout high school earned it as well–while the asshole I dated for a month during college will always be a tremendous bastard in my mind. I wouldn’t call this blind loyalty or slavish devotion at all, and I’m sure I can’t be the only one. I apologize, I think I may have missed your point.

    Posted by Rose | August 14, 2007, 6:27 pm
  139. Hi Heart,
    Are you back? Are you rested? Are you ever going to speak to us again?

    Posted by thebewilderness | August 14, 2007, 9:58 pm
  140. No, she’s not rested. Yesterday was her first day back at work, and her stuff from Michigan is still all over the floor.



    Posted by Mary Sunshine | August 15, 2007, 1:03 pm
  141. Yea exactly Justice Walks. I think people need to read and learn the definition of anti-feminism, so they can recognize it even when it masquerades as feminism.

    Posted by Kiuku | August 15, 2007, 3:28 pm
  142. I’m not entirely sure why the longer comment I posted is still awaiting moderation, but… Kiuku, Justice Walks… I’m not entirely sure I understand what you’re arguing. Or, rather, if I do, I don’t think I agree with it. Surely it’s not impossible for a woman to care for/care about/be protective of a man (and vice versa) without it being “blind loyalty and slavish devotion” or “protecting their women,” right? I’m fiercely protective of the people I’m close to, male and female both–and I’m not exactly sure how those feelings become ‘chains that hold me back.’

    Or am I completely misunderstanding what you two have said?

    Posted by Rose | August 15, 2007, 10:35 pm
  143. I’m so sorry this bullshit is being inflicted upon you! Your website has made a huge impact, even in spite of the hate crimes! It’s hard to believe, but I wouldn’t have known to self-identify as feminist because I wasn’t aware that feminism was still necessary (!), or that there were other people who perceived the world the way I do, or that there were perfect words (you know, crazy “feminist rhetoric”?) to describe my imperfect experiences in life that no one else seemed to recognize or know what to call it.

    You really have made a difference reaching girls who didn’t know enough to take “gender studies” (shouldn’t it be women’s studies?) a mere few years ago. You have completely reframed the way I will look at the world for the rest of my life in a way that finally reconciles all the cognitive dissonance I had between my reality and the distorted reality reflected back to me, because you bothered to put yourself out there with the misogynists at the ready. On top of validating my experience as a woman, you’ve educated me about other issues affecting oppressed communities that I have the privilege of not experiencing myself, and I am a better, more useful person for understanding the details of these obstacles.

    It’s easy to feel defeated when entitled, self-loathing, rapist misogynists attack, but you have done much more good beyond uniting feminists who already have feminist education under their belts; you have been a life-altering educator for what I suspect is a lot of us who trudged through patriarchy, isolated and ignorant! We’ll spread the good memes exponentially, thus inoculating people against the viral sexist memes.

    Internet harassment of this magnitude should be considered a hate crime. Why isn’t it?

    Posted by K.A. | August 16, 2007, 12:06 am
  144. Your ISP took your site down because of too much traffic? Shouldn’t it be proud and upgrade its facilities or maybe charge you extra instead of pulling this site down?

    Hope all will be better ASAP!

    Posted by MJ | August 16, 2007, 3:37 am
  145. Wow, some of my favorite women are here. 🙂 Lady Sun, what a pleasure to read your encouraging words, even though you’ve had to describe all the horrors you’ve endured blogging for Iranian women’s rights among others. (For anybody who missed it, Lady Sun was instrumental in getting the word out in English within hours of the the violent suppression of the Iranian women activists last year in Tehran.) And you know, Lucky, you’re so so right– this isn’t a loss. It’s a win. In a really central way. It’s hard to see it that way when you’re being clobbered by it so thank you, Che, for the reminder. Love, Gandhi. 😉

    There is so much great stuff in here and I am just getting through it now. I just got home this morning and am, of course, SHOT. And have SO so SO many stories, ohmyfreakingoddessonhigh, stories for five blogs and five hundred blog posts!

    Everybody should hustle to buy the current issue of Off Our Backs which I got to read at Fest. My interview of BB is in there and also an article I wrote about the terrorizing of women bloggers and journalists. I had no idea I was really writing it for myself. I read it at the oob table at Fest and thought, “Damn, who wrote this, this is just what I need!” :p

    Maybe I’ll excerpt it but only if you women will order this latest issue from oob. 🙂

    Our ISP has allowed us to exceed our bandwidth for all of the 10 years I’ve had websites with them. We have, in fact, egregiously exceeded our bandwidth and they haven’t charged us extra. We were also hit with something like an attempted DNS attack a couple of years ago which resulted in the boards repeatedly going down, probably some of you here remember that.

    What these guys did caused problems for all of the ISP’s other customers’ sites as well. I am going to move my site and boards to a server that is secure, along the lines of what someone posted here up there a ways. It will be more expensive, and that will be an issue, but I’m still going to do it. The boards will be mostly private, with a couple of public forums We won’t lose anything.



    Posted by womensspace | August 16, 2007, 10:09 pm
  146. Rose, she’s talking about the self-proclaimed feminists who are feminist for themselves and have no consideration for any other women. They care only about male attention and approval and they eagerly offer other women to these men for prey. Often times they protest they’re feminists, even while they curry to men and trolls and talk in terms of strawfeminists about real feminists. Yeah, I said real feminists. Any woman who flirts with trolls at the expense of other women is no friend of mine.

    Posted by ginmar | August 17, 2007, 10:38 pm
  147. Heart I’ll post in tandem with you, when this, the first issue of my subscription arrives.

    Did I mention? I’ve come into money. It was good while it lasted: one subscription, one book, one donation and two iced lattes.

    On the way home, as I mentioned to someone else recently, the coolest guy just flirted with me something awful. He starts kindergarten next month.

    Damn. I’ve still got it.

    Posted by Sis | August 18, 2007, 12:08 am
  148. Crooks&Liars had a link this morning to a site that is addressing the illegal assault on femiist websites. The comment thread has a few criminals trying to justify their crimes.
    http://www.slanttruth DOT com/2007/08/15/feminist-bloggers-are-under-increasing-levels-of-attack/#comment-173

    Posted by thebewilderness | August 18, 2007, 12:59 am
  149. Excuse me please, here is the missing n, though I don’t suppose it is of much use to you now.

    Posted by thebewilderness | August 18, 2007, 1:01 am
  150. the bewilderness I’m so happy to see you here but I don’t care where they are posting what.


    Posted by Sis | August 18, 2007, 3:42 am
  151. Sis, how can I tell you something that I want to tell you?


    Can I get a message to someone who can get a message to you?


    Posted by womensspace | August 18, 2007, 3:55 am
  152. You know the way.

    Posted by Sis | August 18, 2007, 4:28 am
  153. @Ginmar – Ah. All right. That makes sense then, and I agree. Thanks for clarifying that 🙂

    Posted by Rose | August 18, 2007, 5:00 pm
  154. I love, trust, and respect my brothers not because of our blood but because they have EARNED that love, trust, and respect… I wouldn’t call this blind loyalty or slavish devotion at all, and I’m sure I can’t be the only one. I apologize, I think I may have missed your point.

    Perhaps you have. If your love for the men in your life has nothing to do with the kinships imposed upon us by patriarchy, I wouldn’t call it blind loyalty or slavish devotion, and I didn’t. However, I can’t imagine there are too many women for whom blood ties or sex ties or slave ties don’t influence their devotion to relationships with men. I’d say that there are very few women who, irrespective of patriarchal bonds, actually do demand that the men in their lives earn their devotion, labor, and selflessness. But there are certainly plenty of women who, just for example, excuse beatings from their boyfriends, husbands, and fathers when they’d never try to justify assault by a stranger.

    Most women I know start off giving the men closest to them the benefit of the doubt, by virtue only of patriarchal kinship systems that deceive women into believing that “fatherhood” or other relatedness should render a man benign, or at least well-intentioned, and also deserving of women’s subservience. There are plenty of women playing nursemaid to elderly fathers they don’t like, for another example, simply because patriarchy has given great social meaning to what is a very minor physical contribution to reproduction, sperm provision.

    If this is not the case in your own life, consider yourself a rare and privileged exception (there are many places in the world where women do not have a choice in the matter of loyalty and devotion to the men that are related to them) and don’t take it personally that a discussion of women on a grand scale cannot take into account every detail of your own highly unusual, on a global or even national scale, circumstances.

    Posted by Justicewalks | August 20, 2007, 6:28 pm
  155. Okay. I see what you’re saying now, and I agree. Thank you very much for clarifying 🙂

    Posted by Rose | August 21, 2007, 8:38 pm
  156. “on 20 Aug 2007 at 6:28 pm154 Justicewalks”

    Okay, I am going to keep trying to get answers here, even though I wont’t be able to get through to you people.

    For the sake of fairness, whoever moderates these posts, atleast read it before deeming it ”unfit” or ”unwanted” or ”tainted by the male stain” or whatever.

    You claim here the father/daughter relationship is a ”patriarchal kinship system”. Actually that’s called parenthood. Now I’m not sure whether or not you are a parent yourself, but I’m pretty sure you were someone’s child, and with the basic knowledge that it takes a man and a woman to make a child, one of those parents was a man.

    I don’t care if your father was a child-beater, a gambler, a drinker, hell, I don’t care if your father grew drugs out of your fuckinng garage. Your father could be Satan herself, and yet I bet you would still be devoted to him.

    Christ, my own father beat me within an inch of my life on more than one occaision when I was a kid, and yet I still shelled out the $6000 or so to give him a proper burial.

    Not because I was slavishly devoted to him.

    Because he was my father.

    Posted by Sniper-novice Raek of Scout Squad Graevus | August 23, 2007, 3:51 pm
  157. Hey, Sniper, I’m going to respond to you because I think you are sincere in your question. From my perspective, a child has no responsibility at all to a parent who abuses him or her. The fact of biological parenthood proffers no obligation on any of us to do anything for our parents. That’s what we mean when we say the father/daughter relationship is a patriarchal kinship system. It’s a system of ownership. That’s what the word “patriarchy” means — “the rule of the fathers.” Where fathers rule and own, real love and relationship become impossible, and that is the most important reason that the patriarchal kinship system should end. Love should be the basis of all relationships, including any relationship between parent and child — not biology. Not the fact of biological parenthood. Otherwise, the cycle of abuse never ends. Parents model abuse, children learn abuse, and unless they can make sense of things for themselves, they grow up to *be* abused or to abuse themselves. It works the other way, too. The biological fact of parenting a child should not obligate any parent to continue to care for a child who abuses her. The only real, true and lasting basis for any relationship, including the relationship between parent and child, is love.

    I want to say that I respect the fact that you believed you were doing right by your father. I don’t want to minimize that. I do think you were acting as honorably as you knew how at the time. Our culture insists that devotion to our fathers is central and crucial and why? Because we live under the rule of the fathers, and that’s what the fathers want (if they are patriarchal fathers).


    Posted by womensspace | August 23, 2007, 4:11 pm
  158. I would simply like to take a moment to thank Rose for being calm, insightful and remarkably well spoken for one that self-depreciates her abilities in that area.

    You have provided a bright spot in an otherwise depressing situation and I, again, thank you for it.

    Posted by Daerim | August 30, 2007, 6:50 am
  159. “You have provided a bright spot in an otherwise depressing situation and I, again, thank you for it.”

    Bright spot as in continuously doing damage control for these guys (they’re misunderstood freaks, they’re not more misogynist than anyone else, feminists are just random victims, think of England and they’ll get bored and move on!) and hiding that she’s seemingly buddies with the guys who did this? Yes, I can imagine how bright that might be for some people.

    Here’s the lesson: ride both sides of the fence and you just might be called “calm” and “insightful.”

    I guess the other women here must be inciteful then.

    Posted by Rich | August 30, 2007, 7:23 pm
  160. Yup.


    We’re the “bad cops”.

    But y’know what? Without us, there’s no bust.


    Posted by Mary Sunshine | August 30, 2007, 9:28 pm
  161. Please let me know if there’s anything I can do to help, either by recruiting other hackers to track down these jerks, or by contributing to your ISP fund.

    – Liz aka badgerbag

    Posted by Liz | September 4, 2007, 5:51 pm
  162. Back from a long vacation and I see you are, too, Heart! I’m so glad you got to make it to Michfest again, you so deserved it after all this shit. . .speaking of which, what has become of the websites? When will the forums come back up? Are the wretched bastards who did this getting sought out and beaten to within an inch of their lives? (sorry. . just really really rankles me to think these little assholes could be getting off scott-free)

    I’m itching for news! Mostly I miss the forums. I was only on there for a short time but I got to read and participate in some amazing discussions.
    I don’t know if I put this forward before, but would it be possible to ask for an invitation to BB’s journal? I was sad when you made it no longer visible to the public, BB, but I understand why you did it. I didn’t comment much on it, but I miss it terribly. Each time I’d think I knew everything there was to know about the patriarchy and then you’d come up with another eye opener that would leave me speechless thinking “Why didn’t I think of that?”

    I’d love to continue reading what you have to say, but if you don’t trust me right now, that’s ok. Either way, I hope you and your family are doing all right and haven’t been hurt too badly by all this.

    Posted by Chloe | September 6, 2007, 7:26 pm

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The Farm at Huge Creek, Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, The Feminist Hullaballoo