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UPDATE on Up to 14 High School Boys Rape, Torture Developmentally Disabled Girl, Then Make and Sell DVD of the Rapes; Boys Will Do No Jail Time

UPDATE:  The boys who raped and assaulted this young woman will serve no jail time. 

EIGHT teenagers have escaped a jail term for their role in the notorious “Werribee DVD” after a judge ruled they should complete a rehabilitation program to prevent them repeating their “callous” crimes.

A Children’s Court judge convicted seven of the eight youths yesterday after they pleaded guilty to making a film in Werribee last year, which showed them forcing a 17-year-old girl to perform sex acts with two of the boys while the others spat on her, poked her with sticks and repeatedly set her hair alight.

The film, which sparked a police investigation after excerpts were broadcast on national television, also showed the boys urinating on the girl and writing the film’s title, “C— The Movie” on her breasts.

One boy says, ” F—, she’s the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen,” during the film, which was sold to students at Melbourne schools for $5 apiece.

After describing the offences as callous and cruel, the judge yesterday sentenced six of the teens who played the most active roles in the attack to 12 and 18-month-long youth supervision orders.

The order requires the teens to report for up to six hours a week to a youth justice worker, who will counsel them and, in some cases, order them to perform community work for the period dictated by their sentence.

Two of the teens who played lesser roles in the attack were sentenced to a probation order for 12 months, which requires them to report weekly to a youth justice worker.

The worker will develop a plan with the teens to work through problems that might have contributed to their offending, which usually involves organising hobbies for them or talking to teachers about getting them help at school 

Link provided by delphyne and freakindork

 ****

Well, my second cry of the day.

~~WARNING MAY TRIGGER~~

Last June a developmentally disabled 17-year-old girl, Julia, met two boys she had chatted with online at a local shopping mall.  They led her to a nearby riverbank, where the two boys became up to 14 boys.

The boys raped her (forced her to perform oral sex), beat her, lit her hair on fire several times, poured urine onto her body from a cup, then urinated on her directly.   They then threw her coat and some of her clothes into the river.

They filmed the entire attack and made a DVD out of it, which they sold for $5 each.  They later made a worse video which was sold for $10 each.  They listed their real names as credits in the video.  One boy thanked his mother for the use of her videocamera.  These were all white high school boys.  One was a star football player of interest to scouts. 

 Clip from the video

The video was uploaded to YouTube and was viewed 9,000 times.  Recently, five of the boys were expelled or suspended from school.  Now most are being investigated for  rape.  The video has been removed.  When police began looking for the boys and as public outrage over the story mounted, some of the boys laughed and said they thought it was really funny.  Those who saw excerpts of the DVD, broadcast on Australian TV in an attempt to identify suspects, were horrified and expressed disbelief.

Clip from the video

The girl has been in therapy for months and is, obviously, traumatized.

I could be wrong but based on the photo [now deleted; I think Y. Carrington is right, she's been violated enough.  Heart] – the only clear one I could find — the girl does not appear to be white, although the boys are. 

I am thinking that this may be the rapes the Imam was referring to in which he said the victim was so much “uncovered meat” and would be fine if she’d been in her house, in her room, with her hijab on.

This is as much commentary as I can muster right now.

Props to Shannon at Egotistical Whining – I found the story at her blog.  Black Folks also blogged about it.

Someone tell me with a straight face that the ubquitousness of, and contents of, pornography have nothing to do with what these boys did.

It is said that while she was being tortured, Julia was feebly, fearfully, smiling.

Police are trying to confiscate all of the videos sold.   They are child pornography and owning them is a felony.

Link, Link, Link, Link.

Heart

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Discussion

157 thoughts on “UPDATE on Up to 14 High School Boys Rape, Torture Developmentally Disabled Girl, Then Make and Sell DVD of the Rapes; Boys Will Do No Jail Time

  1. I can’t get over it. I look at her there with her hair all pulled back, in her little plaid jacket with the furry hood. In one of the articles, it describes a portion of the video in which the boys are joking and laughing about turning her into a “slut”, saying they need to do a “Brazilian wax” “deforestation.” I keep thinking of her, what she must have been thinking preparing to meet up with these boys, thinking about the way I’ve watched my own teenage girls getting ready to go out. They spend all the time brushing and fixing their hair, trying on outfits, putting on makeup. “How do I look, mom?” “Do I look okay?”

    You’re beautiful, my darling girls. You were beautiful, Julia. You are all so incredibly, incredibly, innocently, trustingly, beautiful.

    I hate this world so much sometimes. I can’t do the subject justice.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 28, 2006, 8:16 pm
  2. I mean, if just one — just one — of those boys would have spoken up. If just one had said, “Dudes, this is wrong.” “Let’s not do this.” It might have gone differently. Not only did none of them do that, the video has been hanging around on You Tube since June. Just now the rape investigations are beginning. I am trying to get my mind around the idea that not one of these boys had pangs of conscience sufficient to speak up at the time, or to go to police later, or even parents.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 28, 2006, 8:47 pm
  3. “I can’t get over it. I look at her there with her hair all pulled back, in her little plaid jacket with the furry hood. In one of the articles, it describes a portion of the video in which the boys are joking and laughing about turning her into a “slut”, saying they need to do a “Brazilian wax” “deforestation.” I keep thinking of her, what she must have been thinking preparing to meet up with these boys, thinking about the way I’ve watched my own teenage girls getting ready to go out. They spend all the time brushing and fixing their hair, trying on outfits, putting on makeup. “How do I look, mom?” “Do I look okay?””

    That’s so IT, isn’t it? And so telling when rape is really understood as so much more than “just” a violation of our bodies, but as such a gross violattion of trust, of spirit.

    I don’t think it is possible to do this subject justice — I don’t even have words for things like this: it especially makes me cringe, remembering my own gang assult, realizing how even more compounded it could have been had it happened present-day — but you get it out there, you say what you do so well, you…well, you do what you do in the perfect, dead-on way you always do, Cheryl.

    Posted by Heather | October 28, 2006, 8:58 pm
  4. Wow. I’m considering showing this blog (not the video) to my 11 year old daughter. What do you think? I can’t decide if that’s terrorism on her to show her, or if it would be good for her to know. Because they really don’t know. They spend so much time dressing up, primping up, knowing that it’s what they’re supposed to do, as girls. But really having no clue WHY it is that they’re supposed to be dressing up, and not knowing what it is they’re Quote-Unquote “Asking for” by doing so. What’s the sane line between protecting them, and terrorizing them with the truth? “Here, THIS is what they want you to dress up for.”

    Where to start.

    Posted by Pramiti | October 28, 2006, 9:07 pm
  5. Hey, Heather, thank you, and you’re so so right, the violation is so thorough and so complete and so goddamn irreversible. :””(

    Pramiti, I have the same questions. I was thinking of showing both my younger kids that photo of the boys, the one in the center particularly. To me that photo captures a spirit, a moment, that nobody ever wants to experience or even see if she or he can help it. I want to teach them about why and how these moments come to pass and how to stay away, stay away, but if they find themselves in a situation like that anyway, I want to teach them to speak up, say “No,” say “Stop,” because the chances are — I hope anyway, dear god — that someone else is scared and thinks it’s wrong but can’t speak up for some reason.

    I don’t know about letting kids read these posts. It’s horrifically hard for me to write them and gather the info for them and I’ve been around in the world for over 50 years, none of this is any surprise to me. I worry about making them too fearful. I keep thinking I really want to get that book, The Gift of Fear and read it and then digest it and teach the truths in it to my children. Mostly I want my kids to learn to trust their guts, those wispy feelings they have that this is not a safe person, this is not a safe place. But I don’t want to teach them to fear everybody they don’t know, either.

    I just don’t know. My sense is, I would not show these posts to my younger kids, but I might very carefully tell them about these things. Honestly, I don’t really know. :(

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 28, 2006, 9:28 pm
  6. This is so disgustingly and obviously influenced by porn. I fear for girls and the pain they will go through when a whole generation of boys their age has grown up with porn and been desensitized to the most extreme sexual torture of women. I’m truly glad that I grew up before porn-viewing the Internet became a wide-spread thing and could influence the men I was involved with when I was younger. I would have been totally unprepared for its influence on them. Of course there was other porn around even if it wasn’t on the Internet, but it just made it less accessible and I can’t imagine that 12 year old boys were viewing rape porn or such disgusting things that are so easily viewed online.

    Posted by Le Chat Noir | October 28, 2006, 10:13 pm
  7. This is horrific beyond words. What kind of males are being bred by our culture?

    because the chances are — I hope anyway, dear god — that someone else is scared and thinks it’s wrong but can’t speak up for some reason.

    They’re being taught that it isn’t wrong, though. They’re being taught that it’s ok – that they can do this to a girl, film it and make money out of it because that’s what their peers want to see.

    If she was over eighteen this would be defended as ‘free speech’, wouldn’t it?

    Christ. I despair.

    Posted by witchy-woo | October 28, 2006, 10:16 pm
  8. “If she was over eighteen this would be defended as ‘free speech’, wouldn’t it?”

    Absolutely.

    Things are so bad today, that if it were a woman over 18, then they would have said she willingly participated. Seems to have been the case that Julie Bindel outlined, where it was three against one.

    Women/girls aren’t believed in gang rapes, there is absolutely no hope of being believed in one-on-one rapes.

    Posted by stormcloud | October 28, 2006, 10:53 pm
  9. If it’s any consolation to anyone, I do have to say that in the work I have done at Scarleteen, I have found that I’m surprised at the diversity of views a lot of the teens — girls and boys alike — have when it comes to porn and violent porn. less of them just accept it — and far more of them are really troubled by it — than I’d have guessed if I didn’t hear from them on these topics.

    Obviously, that doesn’t help us much with those who do NOT question it, who acquiesce, who absorb and accept and even celebrate it, but from what I can gather, an awful lot of them are not just readily taking this stuff in and being okay with it. And for those that are, it doesn’t even need to be at the point where there is legal defense for the material: lookit these boys. Their immediate families are telling them it’s all just a spot of good fun: those immediate influences carry a LOT more weight.

    Posted by Heather | October 28, 2006, 11:27 pm
  10. Heart…may I respectfully suggest removing the image with the survivor Julia in it. Her image has been plastered all over the place already. She’s been violated enough.

    Yolanda

    Posted by Y. Carrington | October 28, 2006, 11:59 pm
  11. this is so, so sad. my heart breaks for that sweet, trusting girl. we were all like that once, weren’t we? and then we learned better. that people really do mean to hurt us. and we’re never the same. it just kills me.

    and what kind of people created those boys? where did they learn to be so cruel and horrible and uncaring? so boldy brutal?

    i guess just look around. it’s everywhere and it’s heartbreaking. i too despair.
    xoxo, jared

    Posted by ms. jared | October 29, 2006, 12:50 am
  12. …I hope that if she was over 18, raping someone and setting their hair on fire would be considered inappropiate subjects to watch…

    Posted by shannon | October 29, 2006, 1:08 am
  13. Yeah, Shannon. Unfortunately, raping someone and setting their hair on fire is just same old same old pornography you can get anywhere, so long as the “actresses” are adults, or close enough.

    Stormcloud, there was a huge comments thread on the site of one of the Australian newspapers in which a considerable number of people — including a high school girl — said Julia agreed to this and just didn’t want to admit it.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 29, 2006, 2:53 am
  14. Pinko Feminist Hellcat also blogged about this. (Link found at Shannon’s place.)

    I need to add Pinko Feminist Hellcat to my blogroll.

    Witchy-woo– so true. Boys learn, coming up, that the thing to do is record sexual exploits and publish them– wherever. All the real he-men do it. :(

    Heather– I agree with what you are saying. I do know more than a few teenagers and young adults who hate pornography, both boys and girls. This keeps me semi-hopeful. :(

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 29, 2006, 3:00 am
  15. Oh, and Y. Carrington, I think you’re right. I deleted Julia’s photo. No need to participate in any sort of violation of this young woman, for any reason.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 29, 2006, 3:07 am
  16. This is really, really horrific. And this is almost worse:

    http://www.news.com.au/sundayheraldsun/story/0,21985,20663477-661,00.html

    Doesn’t religion start and end with the male ownership of women? John Howard really hates women.

    Posted by allecto | October 29, 2006, 4:22 am
  17. I don’t know if anyone’s said this in the comments but the imam was actually referring to a series of gang rapes perpetrated by Arab men on white women that took place a few years ago. All the men were given really long jail terms and hence the mufti was saying that it was the women’s fault for being ‘uncovered meat’. But I think he was talking more generally too.

    Posted by Anna | October 29, 2006, 9:41 am
  18. Oh for crying out loud! That’s the answer, religion in the schools (re Allecto’s links, and thanks, Allecto)!

    ARGH.

    Anna, thanks for that clarification. I did get it that the Imam was talking about the Muslim gang rapes of a few years ago but then got to wondering if he was referring to this incident.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 29, 2006, 1:36 pm
  19. After talking to my partner, and reading the comments, I was reminded of where I stand on the subject of instilling fear into my daughter. Which is that that is NOT how I want to raise my daughter. It’s amazing how quickly my own fear crowds it out of my head. I was raised in fear, using tactics such as these (but with a completely different slant – more along the lines of “You have to be careful what you wear and where you walk, becaus THIS could happen to you!”) And even though I’d long ago determined that my daughter was going to have NO fear if I could help it, but instead was going to have so strong a sense of her own self and her own rights that she would never dream of letting some ass-hole do something she didn’t want, I periodically lose it when I see something that triggers the fear in me, and start fretting that I might not be ‘preparing’ her to face the real world. While she is very, very protected right now, there will be a time when she will chose not to have that protection. So am I sending her own unprepared?

    But that line of self-questioning is only applicable if we were NOT preparing her in other ways. Protecting and encouraging her self-esteem. Her understanding that there are freaks out there, and what they absolutely have no right to do. These talks are with both son and daughter, so she won’t feel singled out.

    I’m thinking I’ll probably have these ‘attacks’ of uncertainty periodically, until I see either how it worked, or until I manage to really see the world in an entirely new light, rather than just knowing it in my head. Here’s hoping the latter will come before the former.

    Posted by Pramiti | October 29, 2006, 7:25 pm
  20. No worries, I think Hilaly made the comments about the same time as the above assault but both didn’t hit the news until recently [a couple of months later], so he wouldn’t have known about the attack at the time of his preaching.

    Posted by Anna | October 29, 2006, 11:21 pm
  21. That is so sickening. How can children not have a conscious about something as serious as raping someone else and abusing them?
    I’m a 17 year old girl and to hear that makes my skin crawl..how sickening. I agree with Le Chat,I’ve been to school and I’ve heard boys talk about “submissive sluts”,how desensitized can one generation be?
    Also the look of those boys laughing into the camera, is just so inhumane..

    Elyse

    Posted by lark89 | October 30, 2006, 1:27 am
  22. “Stormcloud, there was a huge comments thread on the site of one of the Australian newspapers in which a considerable number of people — including a high school girl — said Julia agreed to this and just didn’t want to admit it.”

    Heart, I think you misinterpreted. I was talking about Julie Bindel a UK reporter and recent story http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1930631,00.html
    (it’s UK, so understandable if you weren’t aware of it, but it had been on a couple of blogs). My fault for not linking in the earlier comment, I was in a rush.

    The point is, that more and more, gang rape victims just aren’t believed, because porn says all women want it, want group ‘sex’/rape, etc. This can only mean that the already dismal conviction rates for rape will plummet further.

    I cannot believe that ‘little Johnny Howard’ (as they call him in Oz) seriously thinks religious nutterism will solve violence against women/girls. I would liken it to throwing water on an oil fire. Sheesh!

    Posted by stormcloud | October 30, 2006, 2:04 am
  23. As someone from Australia i find it rediculous that jonny howard would suggest that religion could assist in preventing such an atrocity from reoccuring, considering that these young males were from private “catholic” schools and the DVD’s were sold within these same Private schools… These are not the uneducated, sigle parented low socioeconomic misfits that Mr Howard would like us to believe they are. They are from obviously well to do families who have failed dramaticlly in instilling ethics in their children… rather instilling that responibility into someone elses hands whilst they make money to pay for their “private schools”.. How sadley we have failed as a society..

    Posted by Mel | October 30, 2006, 2:46 am
  24. I appreciate the fact that this is a very emotive subject. The boys involved in this incident should be punished. I also appreciate the pain and anguish of the victim and I do not wish to take away from that reality.

    However, these boys are minors. They will obviously going to face charges of some description. If the reports are anything to go by it could be a rape charge, which I think is justified. That said I am not sure how this works but here in Australia it is illegal to identify a minor who has been charged of a crime.

    Just another problem of the Internet crossing laws and countries and the law not catching up. Anyone know how that works? Good move removing the picture of the victim.

    Posted by The Rooster | October 30, 2006, 3:35 am
  25. The Rooster, thanks for that reminder. I have removed the photos.

    Mel, the boys went to Catholic school? Well, I guess there’s no problem with having a chaplain there then!

    GEEZ.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 3:55 am
  26. The rapes the Imam was undoubtedly referring to were not this case but several cases in Australia of young Islamic men pack raping white girls – they deliberately targeted white girls believing they deserved it. The perprator’s home environment clearly back this “they deserved it” mentality. While this case generated a lot of outrage I think it would have been worse if there were brown faces amongst the perpetrators.

    What I found most interesting about this case was that the boys clearly saw no problem with their behaviour. To show their faces clearly and use their real names makes it clear they never considered the possibility of punishment. A rather sad indictment of society in general.

    Posted by Mr Angry | October 30, 2006, 3:56 am
  27. (Just curious: is that ID issue with them still the case when they have publicly identified themselves via the videos?)

    Posted by Heather | October 30, 2006, 4:23 am
  28. Mr. Angry, while I do know about the Muslim gangs that raped white girls in Australia (and received long prison sentences for it– one of the perps is pictured in the post about the Imam’s recent remarks), I am concerned about your statement that the perps’ home environment backed the “they deserve it” mentality because there’s a suggestion there that this is unique to the perps’ home environments. As we have all witnessed here in the U.S. with many recent, widely publicized rapes, I think a “they deserve it” mentality exists throughout the world, across cultures and groups,  and that within these groups there are always those who don’t believe anybody ever deserves to be raped. I think “they deserved it” is especially common among men influenced by fundamentalist religion,  wherever they live.

    Heather, good question. What do the rest of you think?

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 4:42 am
  29. Their faces were blurred in the news reports so I think it still applies.

    Posted by Anna | October 30, 2006, 9:35 am
  30. Sorry scratch that. This report shows some of their faces quite clearly.

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/outcry-over-teenage-girls-assault-recorded-on-dvd/2006/10/24/1161455722271.html

    From memory though the tv reports blurred their faces. Or maybe some of them are now 18…

    Posted by Anna | October 30, 2006, 9:39 am
  31. I’m not a lawyer. I can’t seem to find any US based law against identifying minors accused of crimes.

    All I do know is that most mainstream media publications don’t in the interest of “politeness,” just like they don’t disclose names of rape victims. Of course, politeness in patriarchy is absent of meaning: they just rely on less savory individuals to publish that information, after which they get to play the public domain card — oh well, it’s already out there and everyone knows, so why bother hiding it — it’s more about their image as objective journalists and keeper of the holy truths than protecting vulnerable people. I’m not interested in that kind of politeness and I doubt you are either.

    OTOH, even if there were such laws or such politeness was required, the fact that those images are already public domain in that way negates those requirements.

    Best link I found (where a writer says that even one of his editors thought, without any basis in reality, that it was wrong to identify minors):

    http://www.newberggraphic.com/opinion/Gary_columns.htm

    Another link:

    http://www.cjc.umd.edu/jcommunity/articles/juvenileprimer.06.htm

    I think that one confuses the issue a bit, by saying “law” when they really mean they’re only printing info law enforcement agencies *offered* them; that doesn’t mean that it would be against the law to say more.

    Posted by Rich | October 30, 2006, 10:23 am
  32. Point taken, I was talking about that case in isolation. Trust me, if you’d seen interviews with some of their families you’d see that the attitude was actively encouraged, not in any general sense. And I grew up in a country town where I never saw a single muslim person but, as you point out, I saw many “religious” people preach the idea that only “bad” women are raped.

    Posted by Mr Angry | October 30, 2006, 11:21 am
  33. Self identification in the videos, interesting.

    From an international point of view, the fact that the girl was under 18 means that the video and DVD should be illegal as child pornography.

    The fact that the perpetrators were arrogant enough to video themselves, and publicly distribute it, would perhaps indicate their consent in having their own images publicly available/distributed.

    It is a different case where a minor is accused of a crime and no proof exists, the media is forbidden to use the image.

    These minors have made their own images commercially and publicly available. No third party took the images of them. Perhaps the images (of the perpetrators) is now public domain (because of the way it was brought into existence).

    Anyway one hopes, that the images are acceptable as evidence in court.

    Personally Heart, having the pictures of the perpetrators (only) up serves as a reminder that these were average, clean cut boys from fairly good, religious homes. And the fact that they were enjoying their spree of terror on this one unfortunate girl, is a reminder of how boys are growing up to view women.

    I am sure that in the not too distant future we will hear that they were ‘troubled’ and ‘different’ from the average boy somehow (patriarchy distancing itself from its footsoldiers that get caught).

    I vote for the images of the perps to be reposted.

    Posted by stormcloud | October 30, 2006, 11:30 am
  34. I vote for reposting too. It’s not hearsay, and they themselves distributed the video. Part of the point is, indeed, that they look so ‘normal’.

    I would have said this at Pinko Feminist, but would have needed another id and password to post there: In the summer, visiting Oregon, I was shocked at the sorts of things some of my nice, liberal, officially feminist friends-from-days-of-yore seem to be teaching their teenage boys about entitlement and the importance of ‘getting laid’.

    I have not assimilated the amazement, and do not know what to say about it, do not know whether anything I could say would be heard. And one is not supposed to tell others how to raise their children (although I, personally, think there are exceptions to that).

    However: the parents of these kids appear to need complete reeducation.
    Even information about _the law_ would be useful.

    Posted by profacero | October 30, 2006, 1:30 pm
  35. I’d actually name the little creeps as well. They themselves put their own credits on the DVD. They are proud of what they did. Credit where credit is due!

    In the UK, I think it requires a judge/magistrate to put a gag order on the names of minors – but they have no jurisdiction over international press. As you are (I’m assuming) a US citizen, with a blog hosted on a US site, anything that happens in another country doesn’t apply to you (unless the same laws are applicable in your country).

    Thanks for reposting the pictures. These little shits deserve all the bad press we can give them.

    Posted by stormcloud | October 30, 2006, 2:27 pm
  36. I’m really glad you reposted, those, Cheryl.

    Obviously, not because they’re nice to look at. I saw the trigger warning, knowing my own experiences with a high school gang, I knew full well I would get triggered and I did, but like stormcloud, I think there are really compelling reasons — especially given the boys identified themselves — for people to be able to see things like this in this context, because it has some incredible power when it comes to letting the reality of rape and a rapist be seen. That that picture painted of the scowling, unkempt man — usually of color — usually looking angry, menacing, NOT like the brother, uncle, father, neighbor, teacher, pastor of every conceivable hue and social strata other people love who rapists often are, could be shown up for the sham it is.

    It occurred to me the other day that if pro-feminist men wanted to do something really powerful, they’d all make “This is what a rapist looks like” t-shirts and wear them. It’ll never happen, of course, even though a t-shirt like that certainly does not say one IS a rapist, but boy, the powerful truth that could shine, eh?

    Posted by Heather | October 30, 2006, 3:31 pm
  37. & the bummer about the videos legally being child pornography — and I do believe that’s so — is that I’m willing to bet that if any of these boys are charged at all?

    THAT is the only charge that’ll stick. If.

    And that is just even more vomit-inducing when I think about it, because to plenty of eyes, that’ll negate this girl’s being a victim of gang rape, and make her appear to merely be an unwitting porn star. :(

    Posted by Heather | October 30, 2006, 3:36 pm
  38. I didn’t know that my statement would draw as much counter comment. But my understanding regarding identifying minors is that they can not be identified. While I can’t say as far as minor (as in not serious) crimes go that this is the case, I can definitely say that with violent crimes esp. rape and sexual assault they most definitely can not be identified.

    Perhaps because they were not charged at the time that the reports were made about the incident was why their pictures were in the story? Not sure.

    This applies even if there exists photos or video of them that was made public. Journalists are not permitted to show/identify or in any way make public those images in their reporting.

    You can appreciate that this has as much to do with protecting a victim as false identification of someone that may have been there but not charged with a crime. I am not saying that is right – but it potentially could happen. Or they could be charged with something minor rather than the greater charge that the actual person who committed the act was charged with. I am sure that the most serious criminal charge that is made will be associated with the group as a whole.

    Even though they have willingly put their faces out there, they were stupid on all counts. The law steps in and protects them from their own stupidity and the privacy of the victim so that no associations can be made. It also ensures that all perpetrators regardless of their part are only judged for what they are charged with and not what people might assume they did by being there. You might say they don’t deserve these rights and you might be right. But we are not the law and they deserve to be judged fairly as we would. After that throw the book at them.

    That is my understanding. I do not fully understand it though, so I may be wrong. But I can see it from both sides.

    Then there is the fact that we as bloggers want to be taken seriously and as a source of reliable “reporting”. If we become “rogue” reporters that have no regard for law and regulation then we loose some of that that I think we are striving for. That is just the “I want to move new technologies and citizen media forward” person in me talking. If you don’t agree then that is fine. You may even take the line that we should be doing the opposite to what the mainstream media does, that is real “reporting” and I could see your point there as well. There is a time for that but it is hard to discern.

    Good discussion thread :)

    Posted by The Rooster | October 30, 2006, 4:19 pm
  39. “However, these boys are minors. They will obviously going to face charges of some description. If the reports are anything to go by it could be a rape charge, which I think is justified. That said I am not sure how this works but here in Australia it is illegal to identify a minor who has been charged of a crime.”

    Well, thank gawd these boys were selling the DVD first so we don’t have to do the heavy work of identifiying them.

    Posted by Q Grrl | October 30, 2006, 4:41 pm
  40. However, when the policy is about protecting rapists –who SELF identified by face and full-name, no less, as well as making public confessions and posting a public record of their crimes, which was criminal in and of itself — and as feminist women, we’re already “rogue,” — and by design and intent to be — for me anyway, my concern is less with some sort of credibility as an internet commentator/reporter then with using the media to forge bigger changes.

    Especially when policy/protocol is about protecting rapists.

    (I’m going to ask my ACLU lawyer about this: curious to see what their take is.)

    Posted by Heather | October 30, 2006, 4:44 pm
  41. Rooster, I appreciate your zest for the fairness of patriarchal law, but after reading this:

    “Even though they have willingly put their faces out there, they were stupid on all counts. The law steps in and protects them from their own stupidity and the privacy of the victim so that no associations can be made. It also ensures that all perpetrators regardless of their part are only judged for what they are charged with and not what people might assume they did by being there. You might say they don’t deserve these rights and you might be right. But we are not the law and they deserve to be judged fairly as we would. After that throw the book at them. ”

    I ask, who benefits? You seem to be saying that boys will be boys, but we must be fair and remember that they’re just boys, stupid boys at that, and despite *any* criminal activity, they need to be treated with equanimity. You have effectively erased both the crime and the victim of the crime.

    Posted by Q Grrl | October 30, 2006, 4:45 pm
  42. Q Grrl, I too *appreciate* Rooster’s zest for the fairness of patriarchical law (LOL)! :-P

    It is irrelevant, even if forbidden by Australian law to publish the names/faces of minors charged – as Australian law does NOT cover the USA, UK, Timbuktoo. That is the niftyness of the internet, to get around those national barriers.

    There have been numerous occasions when a gag order (on the press) has been in place in the UK, yet the photos/names are available via European or American news sources.

    Also bear in mind that it cannot be a case of mistaken identity. These are THE perps in the midst of their crimes. It is not a case of innocent until proven guilty, the evidence is there by their own perverted, arrogant, little hands. Stupidity is one thing, but criminal activity is quite another.

    And anyway, some of the perps are over 18 now anyway.

    Yes, that’s right, they were basically adults when they did this. Not 10 year olds, not 6 year olds – but just shy of voting age, driving age (in Aust). These aren’t little kids. They are certainly far closer to adulthood than childhood.

    The law should come down on them, and come down hard. This is not some folly of youth, the crime was sadistic and cruel (as were there other crimes that they taped).

    That poor girl. Her family says she has now become (understandably) withdrawn.

    BTW Rooster, I don’t think any of us set ourselves up as any kind of ‘mainstream responsible newsource’ enforcing the patriarchical code of ethics – we’re here to expose this crap and the crimes against women – all too frequently hushed up by mainstream media. Quite frankly, I’m not interested in protecting the patriarchy, rapists, or sympathisers.

    Posted by stormcloud | October 30, 2006, 5:29 pm
  43. I found the following comments on a mirror site of one of the ringleader’s blogs. I’m not going to post the link or provide any info about it, because then people might be able to find a more current site which is really scary and I don’t want any part of it or to be responsible for anyone going there and participating in it. There are all sorts of horrifying people in there threatening these boys in the most hideous and violent of ways. That’s the thing about the photos. Violent men in prison can see these photos from prison. If the boys get sent to prison, they will be recognized. I think  considerations like these are factored into these laws about identifying minors accused of crimes. These boys are, some of them, old enough that they might end up tried as adults, although based on what I have read so far, only one, possibly two of them is facing rape charges with the others likely facing accessory charges, so who knows if they will even do any time, if, in fact, they are convicted.

    Anyway, the comments on this blog as word began to get out in the media about the DVD are pretty scary. The kid gets a ton of support. The pictures of these kids evidence that with one exception, they are all white. They appear to be middle class, most of the girls are absolutely traditionally beautiful, and most of them, right along with the boys, support the kid. I am omitting names and will use “DP” in place of the screen name of the perpetrator.

    ****

    Girl
    10/24/2006 6:08 PM

    DP:
    i love you very much,
    and we are all here for you 100%
    take care ♥

    10/24/2006 5:16 PM

    hey hun i heard about what happen just letting u no im here for u no matter what ok love u always xoxox
    Girl

    10/24/2006 7:56 AM

    DP……… i heard some shit involving U, wbee, shit,a dvd, and channel 7? hahaha……. inform me ! haha. did chanel 7 find out about u havin sex with the dog ? lol
    Boy

    10/24/2006 7:17 AM

    wtf man :-(
    sorry about your shit skool gettin rid of you! wats the media gonna do when WE STRIKE BACK WOOO lol
    dont give up -CTM2 UNCUnT- xoxoxoxo
    Boy

    10/24/2006 6:29 AM

    thought i might add to those millions of comment ur getting hahaha… fark im bord. mad night for a chill ride ….. take care man and keep the s tudying going tomoz:)
    Girl

    10/24/2006 5:50 AM

    heyy ♥
    dont know you or nothing but just thought i’d let you know i give you guys full suppport on the whole thing ..
    goosluck best wishes etc.
    hope everything works out for ya man
    werribe has got cha back
    xo
    Girl

    10/24/2006 5:16 AM

    love u kido, no matter what!! :)xx
    Girl

    10/24/2006 4:52 AM

    media are gay
    there is always 2 sides of the story!
    well im susporting you boys 100%
    back you’s up any day!
    good luck man
    xoxo me on [e-mail address]

    Girl

    10/24/2006 4:45 AM

    DP BABBYY!!
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
    LOVE UU!!
    XOX
    Boy

    10/24/2006 4:31 AM

    hey mr gay jus chill a trade now xoxoxo
    Girl

    10/24/2006 4:27 AM

    hey i dont no you..
    but i no some of your friends that made the video thingy
    hope your not in to much trouble..
    i guess at the time you;s though it was fun
    didnt expect it to become this popular?
    well it all die down soon..
    just hope your ok..
    Girl

    10/24/2006 3:38 AM

    everyone loves you DP
    forever
    xx
    Girl

    10/24/2006 3:35 AM

    and i mean that in a nice way just incase it came out wrong xx all the best mate
    Girl

    10/24/2006 3:34 AM

    DP mate i think no less of you=)
    Girl

    10/24/2006 3:04 AM

    DP!
    heard about ur shit day man
    just letting u noe we r all behind u
    love u mucchly
    luv Girl, n all my gurls xoxo

    10/24/2006 2:54 AM

    DP

    me, Girl and Girl showed our LIFE LONG LOVE for you by posting bullitens about how much we love you and always will.

    we alsoooo have the fingers crossed sign in msn names too shut every hater up.

    LOVEEEE YOU
    Girl

    ps. good luck with everything.
    Girl

    10/24/2006 2:38 AM

    hey DP dogg i jst saw the shit on the news man wats goin on??? i could hear u laughin in the background n shit im like yeh thats DP lol heard u got expelled too?? cya soon man
    Girl

    10/24/2006 1:14 AM

    THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT,
    they r making u out as the fuking biggest criminal ever,
    wen ur the nicest guy i have ever met,
    y do u think i love you for?
    me and Girl are beind u through everyhting,
    and i will stick by u through thick and thin im serious
    even if i dont get to c u ever again due to FUKING CAMERAS OUT THE FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE, im gunna fucking smash every lense possible,
    i miss you soo much
    and i cant wait for all this fucking bullshit to finish, and for this [name] chick, im gunna fucking shit in her mouth lol hahahaha
    love you
    Boy

    10/24/2006 12:20 AM

    What’s going on DP? I am going to jump on the bandwagon and say I am behind you and the boys. You are good kids and it is this tabloid style sensationalist television reporting that has put you in this position. But what piss’s me off for you is that girl involved. It is obvious she consented to it. She is smiling, laughing and pardon the pun, loving it. Now she is too ashamed to admit to her parents, friends and the public about her actions, they are now turning around and saying she was forced and laying blame on you boys, destroying your images and identity in turn, just to save their own identity. Its pathetic this girl and her family are going to get away with blatantly lying to the police and more importantly the general concerned public and especially you.
    I know you got some good kids up in Weribee and around to offer you support, but I am here if you need it mate. Keep strong and you know people in turn will help you too.

    Girl

    10/23/2006 11:07 PM

    Hey DP
    u dont know me but i talk to a few of your mates. Just hope your goin allright with whats happening:) we will all stick by you and help ya pull through this. People seem to talk alota crap and cant get their facts right.

    Take care hun
    Girl

    10/23/2006 10:53 PM

    eyy man hows it goin? hope everythings aiight, we all thinkin of u!! much love dude
    ciao
    Boy

    Girl, Girl, Girl, and Girl says:
    exactly b coz use boys are to fuked in the head to realise anything ..u’s r sick and yea hope u’s all get whats comin to u’s

    DUDE THIS CHICK DESERVES AN EGGIN

    Boy

    10/23/2006 10:39 PM

    hey dude hope ur feeling ok. u always think positive. if sumthing like that happend to me i would be so down. but u think positive and think about things ahead and move on which is good:) hey dude anything u need im here ok dnt forget that. take care. tomoz if ur not busy will do sumthing
    Girl

    10/23/2006 9:57 PM

    DP ON THE NEWS
    DP ON THE NEWSS
    DDDDDPPPPPP ON THE NEWS!!
    we got a copy of [the movie]
    it was good as
    but that shit was fukkin sickning bou tthat girl
    ur mean!!!
    JOKESS
    umm i liek the shit bout u as a kidd!!
    and my all time fave thing u hav eva made is [another movie]
    i swear i laugh soo much at that shit!!
    anyway DP
    just stopedd in to sayy good jobb loserr
    ps best editing job eva!!

    Boy

    10/23/2006 6:16 AM

    they have just helped u the fuck outtttt nowyou c an sell so more fucking copies because you got free advertising hahaaaaaaa wooooooo and if they try any funny shit you can use the money to fight them hey man ill hook my cousins in romania up as well we will get this shi world wide hahahah we are thugs in the making picking o ppl that cant efend themselves onto us hahahha what a gay fuckig bitch soooooooooo anyway when is [sequel to the movie] comming out soooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnn
    Boy

    10/23/2006 6:08 AM

    10/23/2006 6:00 AM

    ive thoguth very hard abotu this
    and im sorry
    but im leaving u for Boy
    goodbye
    Girl

    10/23/2006 5:27 AM

    the best part
    on
    [the movie]
    is you when you were little with a mushroom cut. AND UR VOICE IS THE BEST!
    Boy

    10/23/2006 5:04 AM

    POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR FUCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK YEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR u have fuckin heaps of comments cunnnnnnnt, fuck good luck bro see u tomz night sexy
    Girl

    10/23/2006 4:57 AM

    DP
    please promise me you wont sell anymore copies, ur in enough trouble as it is, u dont need to make it worst please DP
    i dont want to be one of those chicks who has to visit their lovah in jail, with a 1 hour caravan visit a fornight, with soppy love letters lol, ahahah that would give me shivers up my spine, just lyk u do.
    xxxxx
    Girl

    10/23/2006 4:52 AM

    DP I need 5 copies off [the movie].
    bloody cunts want it like mad after seeing it on tv.
    get back to me as soon as possible their given me the cash tuesday and want dvds wednesday.
    Girl

    10/23/2006 4:48 AM

    DP get me a copy of [the movie] please
    cant stop the rain

    10/23/2006 2:29 AM

    saw the tv show
    fuckin bullshit
    lol can u realli find it on google?
    Boy

    10/23/2006 2:19 AM

    i luv u DP
    hope shit dont hit no fan man n if it does FUK THEM CUNTS
    |…boy…|

    10/23/2006 2:18 AM

    [MOVIE TITLE] WOOOOOOT WE ARE FAMOUS BOIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Girl

    10/23/2006 2:12 AM

    DP, you like a movie star.
    hope you dont get fucked over hardcore.
    take care.
    much love
    Girl

    10/23/2006 2:11 AM

    shii man they made everyone out to be like fucks, hope ur not gettin fucked over by it. i guess your famous now, but shit not like that
    Girl

    10/23/2006 2:06 AM

    DP u gangster, that was great
    Girl

    10/23/2006 2:05 AM

    “insecure animals” sucks to be you hahaha did you hear that phsychiotrist. want a mad bitch. shes even planned your entire personality out for you on tv.
    Boy

    10/23/2006 2:04 AM

    wat a load of shit… pll r saying u need to go to court and shit…..??? i tried calling u but u didnt answer…. call me when u can please
    Boy

    10/23/2006 2:03 AM

    MR TRICK MAN. fuk they make it as if were the worst fukin kids on earth and that we shud all go to HELL lol. dude i hope u dont get introuble man.
    Girl

    10/23/2006 1:56 AM

    zomg
    DP
    is
    like
    fully
    off
    the
    hook famous.
    bouncing
    off
    the
    walls.
    Boy

    10/23/2006 1:55 AM

    elllo mr gay yeh i finally gave in n became a [blog] fag anywayz were all fukd
    Boy

    10/23/2006 1:49 AM

    whats going to happen to you, because of [the movie] man? hahaha
    Girl

    10/23/2006 1:49 AM

    DP ur not apart of the ‘youth gangs’ are u?? hahaha xxxx
    Girl

    10/23/2006 1:48 AM

    DPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
    [THE MOVIE] is fukin out there!!!
    now everyone knows about
    [THE MOVIE ]

    END

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 5:30 pm
  44. Not to mention Rooster has something backwards: the more severe the crime, the more likely it is that the mainstream media will break it’s own code (no one has provided any proof of law yet) and identify minors; in fact, that goes hand in hand with being “tried as an adult,” meaning that protection is no longer given. Again, this is not by law (at least in the US afaik, and she could be completely wrong about Australian law, too), but by convention. Rooster, on the other hand, suggests that identifying minors is more permitted for minor infractions, which goes opposite of that.

    I still haven’t seen any actual evidence of these laws existing or applying to this website, and the onus is on Rooster to supply that, especially when making such sweeping directives (that are purely based on mythology as far as I can tell) on what Heart should or shouldn’t publish.

    Posted by Rich | October 30, 2006, 5:39 pm
  45. I read one article in which attorneys involved were asking whether this attack would have played out the way it did no matter what, or whether it played out this way because the boys had a camera and were filming it, making a movie. I think that’s a good question. If they are filming it, then maybe in their minds it isn’t real, it’s not the same as a real attack, in the same way that what happens in pornography isn’t real, because what happened was filmed for other people to watch.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 6:41 pm
  46. The problem I have with that is that we could apply that logic to pretty much all rape and all the myriad kinds of rationalizing why a rape isn’t a rape.

    It’s not a “real” attack because she wanted it/was dressed that way/was drunk/was walking down that street alone/is my wife/likes it rough/slept with me once before/flirted with me earlier/isn’t screaming or crying…blah blah blah. So we add “because it looks like porn where it looks like women like to be mistreated” or “because we’re just making a fun movie” to that list. If we can find room. It’s a really long list.

    Do you know what I mean?

    Posted by Heather | October 30, 2006, 6:52 pm
  47. Heather, exactly– sorry to be not clear enough. What I meant in my comment was, this is the effect pornography has on people, on boys like this, I think. If a rape, torture, assault of a girl or woman are filmed, then it’s not a rape anymore, now it’s a movie. Like the way all of those people said the Muslim women weren’t being raped by soldiers (in a blog post of a while ago) because of this, that or the other reason, that this was “just pornography,” when in fact, regardless, those were rapes. It seems like what these boys’/men’s friends also saw was not their friends raping on, urinating on, a woman, setting her hair on fire three times (and they also wrote something on her body). They saw a “movie.”

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 7:12 pm
  48. I’ve had a look at some of the Australian TV reports on it and it certainly has been packaged like a professional product would be, with proper editing and artwork. They’ve even included a fake R rating on the DVD box. There is also a disclaimer before the video of the girl being raped is shown stating that she “consented” to what they did to her. In the video they talk to the camera calling her “the victim” and pointing to her. The guy from Jackass TV has been in the Australian media defending himself against charges that Jackass has had any influence on these boys but it looks very much like a Jackass video apart from the fact that they are committing crimes.

    I’m sure these boys know what they are doing is real Heart, otherwise they wouldn’t have tricked the girl, they wouldn’t have picked on a girl who was developmentally delayed who would be more vulnerable and they would have been upfront about what they were planning on doing to her. She was tricked. No need to trick if you see nothing wrong with your actions. I think porn makers know that they are sexual abusers too. The fact is they know it but they lie about it, so they can keep doing it.

    Posted by delphyne | October 30, 2006, 7:15 pm
  49. Rooster, this isn’t a newspaper or a court of law – this is more like the activities of the Mothers/Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo, keeping things from being swept under the rug, demanding truth and action.

    Posted by profacero | October 30, 2006, 7:18 pm
  50. I think the camera gives people a license they might not otherwise take however. Maybe that little extra bit of power and authority and distance between themselves and the subject that helps them to be even more abusive.

    Posted by delphyne | October 30, 2006, 7:20 pm
  51. Yes, I think the boys knew what they were doing, just as pornographers know what they are doing, in the sense of, they are going to do things to women that the women would not agree to. They know, in other words, that they are going to rape, violate, perpetrate, assault. What I think, though, is that they really don’t see anything wrong with what they are doing. They view the resistance of girls and women’s as challenges, obstacles in their path. Kind of like when hunters lure prey into traps; they know they have to trick their prey, overcome their resistance. But they don’t think there’s anything wrong with what they are doing. That’s what’s scary. They know the girl will object, won’t like it. They know some people will think what they have done is wrong. But that doesn’t mean they believe what they are doing is wrong. Which is why they listed their names.

    I think this is what pornography does. It makes rapes, sexual assaults and attacks, not real. So long as a rape is being filmed, it becomes, not a rape, but a movie in the minds of the rapists. Even if they know it’s a rape, they can say it was just a movie and count on being believed and defended.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 7:24 pm
  52. There is all of this hatred and venom now being poured out on these boys. But where it is men pouring it on, well, they should look in the mirror if they use pornography, advocate for it, make it, buy it. defend the making of it, and women, too. They’ve participated in the creation of this milieu in which so long as you capture the degradation of a woman on film, and then market it, it’s a-okay. That’s “freedom of speech.”

    Which is what we’ve been saying for the longest, haven’t we? About pornography. That’s just what we’ve been saying.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | October 30, 2006, 7:28 pm
  53. This makes me feel sick to my stomach. The thought that teenagers could do this, that porn is conditioning young people, making them view women and other teenage girls as something to use in their perverted warped view of sexuality and life. But we mustn’t give up hope that there are teenagers and young people who do not agree with pornography and degradation of women. This is why feminism is still so important – to make young people finding their sexuality aware of what is and isn’t real sexuality. Porn certainly isn’t. I’m feeling absolutely outraged and sick for Julia.

    Posted by Liz | October 30, 2006, 7:32 pm
  54. My feeling is that they knew what they were doing was wrong but they also knew (or thought they knew, because being teenagers they haven’t got a complete grasp on how things work) that they would get away with it. They certainly got away with it in their own particular subculture given the amount of support they’ve had from their friends and acquaintances.

    It was a real punch in the guts to see their crappy disclaimer that the girl in question “consented”. I’m sure that’s what they thought was their get-out clause. After all it works for all the other rapist-pornographers, right?

    Posted by delphyne | October 30, 2006, 7:35 pm
  55. I think it would have happened, camera or no camera. I just think they thought they were ‘clever’.

    It was a deliberate choice of victim. She would have been probably too innocent and trusting.

    I actually don’t care if they are identified, nor do I care what happens to rapists in prison. I don’t care.

    Posted by stormcloud | October 30, 2006, 10:33 pm
  56. I think what bothers me most about this, other than the fact that it happened at all, is that it apparently sat on YouTube for so long, that none of the kids ‘fessed up for so long, that nothing was done for so long.

    I have no idea what effect pornography, or Jackass, might have had on these young sociopaths. I don’t especially mind if they’re identified. They have it coming.

    Peace,

    TH

    Posted by Tom Head | October 30, 2006, 11:11 pm
  57. This is what a percentage of boys find to be a “party” a “good time,”
    These boys grow up, and raise more “bad boys”.

    There was a time when this stuff happend and the photo’s, stories and video’s were traded among close knit groups. Now with you tube and the likes, these dolts are placing them were they can be exposed for the whacked out disgusting losers they are. Even if later than sooner, eventually they’re going to get caught.

    The terms lady killer had a real meaning back in the day the term was popular. It used to be said as a compliment. The meaning is just as valid today, only I hope people are finding it less funny (less boys will be boys), and recognise that this is budding psycopathy.

    Posted by hazel8500 | October 31, 2006, 4:15 am
  58. wow thats so bad .. its a bit similar to a rape story that happned in sydney 20 yrs ago, yet with older men …. i hope thoes boys get life in jail and althought they are only 14 i would hit each one with a bat in the head if i had the chance to .. any way in jail they have their own rules and these guys will get what is comming to them

    Posted by insearchoffootball | October 31, 2006, 10:05 am
  59. OK that is the path that I thought the thread would take and I thought also that you would automatically assume that I was in support of their behaviour/crimes/etc and that I was ignoring the victim… I am not surprised.

    None of which is true

    But I am entitled to my opinion, even if I think we should abide by the law, regardless of origin. Otherwise we will be written off as being anything creditable and viewed as fringe by the community as a whole.

    I really do hope that you find satisfaction in your revolution and you get the results that you are looking for. That is not a sarcastic comment either, but a genuine admiration for what you wish to achieve and the tenacity to go after it.

    Posted by The Rooster | October 31, 2006, 12:08 pm
  60. Who is this “we” you speak of Rooster? How very manipulative of you to try and include yourself in radical feminism in order that you can attempt to control our discourse. You’re entitled to your opinion, whether anybody thinks it has much value in this context is another matter.

    Australian TV networks, which are in the jurisdiction where this crime has taken place, have already shown pictures of the boys’ faces. The reason why it is legal for them to do so is that none of the boys have been charged with any crime. Yet.

    Posted by delphyne | October 31, 2006, 1:51 pm
  61. “But I am entitled to my opinion, even if I think we should abide by the law, regardless of origin.”

    As far as anyone knows, this “law” originates and ends at you; you still haven’t bothered to support your statement with evidence, which is ironic considering how you’re positioning yourself as the objective party here.

    And secondly, I’m not sure that you even believe in your “regardless” there. What you seem to mean is Western White People Law that you respect, not all laws, everywhere.

    Posted by Rich | October 31, 2006, 3:03 pm
  62. With all due respect Rooster, if you knew that your words would provoke our exact reaction, why did you post them then? We are all highly intelligent, learned women. We know the law and the social ramifications of trials by public opinion. We get that. And even if we don’t mention it, espcially, I suppose, if we don’t mention it, someone, somewhere will bring it up – an underhanded reminder that our thoughts, actions, and outrage are dangerously close to being antisocial, dangerous to the social fabric that holds us all togther.

    Which, of course, ignores the fact that this social fabric is the patriarchy.

    In my book, if little boys and young men wish to act like beasts, they have already violated any prior social contracts – they are as much pissing on society as they are pissing on this girl. Their act isn’t just literal – it is symbolic, a dare, a taunt to see how much they, as males, can bend, rend, or mutilate the common social fabric. This rape was/is their rite of passage into their own self-made future.

    In light of this, I find any suggestions that women/feminists should be cautious and respectful of these boys’ right to privacy to be a veiled threat; a rather cowardly hushing of the righteous outrage of women. The suggestion is that *we* will be the one’s to fuck up, tear apart, our delicate social fabric. To that I say: those boys beat me to it.

    You are indeed entitled to your opinion, Rooster. You are not so much entitled to wield it and then pat us on the head with your “genuine admiration” when we call your opinion to the mat. Either defend your opinion, or bow out gracefully. Don’t insinuate that we are titlting at windmills while you can so cavalierly waltz in here and say “but I am entitled to my opinion”. How clever of you to make yourself the rational one, while implying that our words, or thoughts, are just emotional overreactions (by using the word “satisfaction”).

    We’re not looking for satisfaction; and our revolution is not something out there, disembodied.

    We are our revolution.

    Posted by Q Grrl | October 31, 2006, 5:00 pm
  63. I can’t even look at those pictures. Those kids resemble my younger cousins, the kids I used to babysit, the paperboy in my neighborhood. It is deeply disturbing to have that correlation put right in my face.

    I feel too sick to even process this. In a perfect world, these sick little bastards would never be outside a prison cell again.

    Posted by Lya Kahlo | October 31, 2006, 5:45 pm
  64. “Their act isn’t just literal – it is symbolic, a dare, a taunt to see how much they, as males, can bend, rend, or mutilate the common social fabric. This rape was/is their rite of passage into their own self-made future.”

    This is very true, and very well put.

    Posted by delphyne | October 31, 2006, 6:53 pm
  65. You know, I don’t quite understand the focus some posters have on the perpetrators images or their privacy issues. In stripping away the rights of this girl, and recording it with full knowledge and expectation that the footage would be viewed AND be profitable, these boys have given up any and all rights to privacy, in my opinion. Isn’t there some legal term about this? Expectation of privacy? These boys had none, they should receive none.

    What strikes me so deeply is the image especially the one in the middle, reminds me of my own vicimizers at that age. Mabey all teen boys look like that I don’t kbnow, but that IS the face I see when I fall asleep during the “bad nights”

    This is not new folks, the technology to produce copy and distribute may be, but the underlying behaviour is not.

    Things are not getting worse, they are becoming more and more obvious to more and more of us.

    100th monkey, critical mass, and all that.

    Posted by hazel8500 | October 31, 2006, 9:33 pm
  66. What delphyne said, and also to:

    “I find any suggestions that women/feminists should be cautious and respectful of these boys’ right to privacy to be a veiled threat; a rather cowardly hushing of the righteous outrage of women. The suggestion is that *we* will be the one’s to fuck up, tear apart, our delicate social fabric. To that I say: those boys beat me to it.”

    Posted by stormcloud | October 31, 2006, 9:50 pm
  67. BTW, in hunting around different sources, many of the perps now appear to be 18.

    Posted by stormcloud | October 31, 2006, 11:41 pm
  68. We had a horrendous case similar to this one in New Jersey several years back. A group of high school jocks raped a 17 year old retarded girl with a broomstick and a baseball bat in the basement of the home of two of them. It is a notorious case, known as the Glen Ridge rape. I just did some research and found that two of them, both 18 years old, were identified in the press and two under 18 were not, but the identities of all of them were revealed by the time they went to trial. I have no idea if it is a law or just a custom not to identify minor perps in the media.

    Posted by Branjor | November 1, 2006, 12:12 am
  69. (Can only be quick, as I’m in Philly now, but in asking around, the word is that showing these photos isn’t an issue of law when it comes to anyone but a prosecutor, basically. So, 18 or not 18, internet or no a) a blog isn’t a legal case and b) there isn’t actually *legal* policy about not identifying like this, only matters of general practice, but not policy or law about a “right to privacy” in this regard.

    And I need to quote what stromcloud did again from Q grrl, because it’s just so awesome: “I find any suggestions that women/feminists should be cautious and respectful of these boys’ right to privacy to be a veiled threat; a rather cowardly hushing of the righteous outrage of women. The suggestion is that *we* will be the one’s to fuck up, tear apart, our delicate social fabric. To that I say: those boys beat me to it.”

    Posted by Heather | November 1, 2006, 3:31 pm
  70. “I find any suggestions that women/feminists should be cautious and respectful of these boys’ right to privacy to be a veiled threat; a rather cowardly hushing of the righteous outrage of women. The suggestion is that *we* will be the one’s to fuck up, tear apart, our delicate social fabric. To that I say: those boys beat me to it.”

    Speaking of “righteous outrage,” one of my classmates in IMPACT last weekend said, when we brought up Bob Herbert’s article, that women weren’t “rioting in Pennsylvania.”

    Maaaaaaan. Is it the times or is it that we’re too suckered into silly “helpless” beliefs about ourselves to riot? I mean, there aren’t as many reactionary riots going on in the 2000′s as there were in the 1960′s. Are there still riots over KKK activities and such? Let’s see…if I remember correctly, there was some rioting or something over that drunk black man who got tazed & assaulted by police in New Orleans about a week or so after Katrina. But people were kind of used to feeling empowered & capable of rioting. Rodney King riots came a little more out of nowhere. But yeah…is it we women alone among the social categories who don’t get around to rioting out of nowhere when we hear appalling news, or is it just that rioting isn’t a strategy used much by social groups at all anymore?

    Posted by Katie | November 1, 2006, 4:59 pm
  71. Anyway, yeah, I forgot to say why I put that with that quoted comment! I wanted to pose a second question after that first one I just wrote:

    If it’s just us who’re refraining from rioting among social groups watching their own members arbitrarily & disproportionately go down in the worst ways, then should we start? If “righteous outrage” as a general term won’t tear apart the social fabric (because it’s the violence we’re reacting to that already did much more than we ever could), is a real, uncontrolled RIOT among the actions we could take as “righteous outrage” that would still do less damage to society than actions like the ones we’re reacting to did?

    If the answer to that is “Yes,” then it seems like we oughtta get off our butts and riot.

    If the answer to that is “No,” then it seems like we oughtta get off our butts and march.

    The “No” option reminds me of what Sage wrote over at Persephone’s Box:

    “If we want to end all sexual abuses and assaults, all domestic violence, all men harming women, we need to affect our legal and economic systems. Specifically, we need … We need … We need … We need … We need … We need … [a list of specific things relevant to her topic for the day]

    “We know what we need to do to get this, but it isn’t exciting or radical, it’s laborious and tedious. We need to write letters and make phone calls, every one of us, every single day. If we could each send a letter to a different political figure, business, or media outlet each day, eventually they’d have to listen. We need to campaign and vote for the people who will support this struggle.

    “Stop reading blogs and go write a letter. Right now. Then schedule that into your day just like brushing your teeth. We can do it.”

    So…who’s with Sage?

    Posted by Katie | November 1, 2006, 5:07 pm
  72. We need… to invest ourselves in the next few generations. Rioting will not appease my rage. And if these boys are as affected by what they see on the internet as they claim to be, then blogging is indeed a revolutionary act.

    Posted by Q Grrl | November 1, 2006, 7:30 pm
  73. Just to clarify the point I think Rooster was making, here in Australia it is illegal for media to publish images of minors charged with criminal offences.

    These repulsive little toerags haven’t yet been charged. But they will be.

    Obviously this blog is outside that jurisdiction.

    Posted by Laura | November 3, 2006, 1:09 am
  74. “Just to clarify the point I think Rooster was making, here in Australia it is illegal for media to publish images of minors charged with criminal offences.”

    Is there a website listing the exact legal code? I ask because a lot of people seem to believe it’s illegal in the US, without basis, as it IS completely legal. It would be a shame if Australians are repeating the same misinformation about their own laws — not to mention Rooster has repeatedly omitted proof from her claim.

    Posted by Rich | November 3, 2006, 3:08 am
  75. “Under the common law in Australia, court proceedings are usually open to the press and public. All information before a court is made available to those present [27], and the press is entitled to publish reports of court proceedings and public documents so long as “fair and accurate”. Exceptions to the open court rule exist in some cases involving family law matters and all matters where children are defendants.”

    From here.

    There is an exception. In the Northern Territory, if you know where that is, the media is allowed to identify juvenile defendants.

    Posted by Laura | November 3, 2006, 11:35 am
  76. I think, though I could be wrong, that you are making that mean more than it actually means: talking about those kids, posting pictures of them, interviewing people who know them, talking about the videos, has *nothing* at all to do with COURT PROCEEDINGS. That form of privacy is very specific. Hell, the police already allowed the images of those boys to be broadcast on national TV in order to identify the suspects.

    I also think it’s offbase to assume that the world begins and ends with the courts: i.e. if it’s under the court’s jurisdiction, to even the slightest extent, every other institution has to cede interest in it. Especially since, as far as I can tell, your laws don’t even require that.

    Posted by Rich | November 3, 2006, 2:03 pm
  77. I don’t know about Australian law, although their system is based on British law, but in the UK when an issue becomes sub judice, i.e. when it comes under the sanction of the courts because there is going to be a trial, then there are strict restrictions on media reporting in order that the trial is not interefered with. For example coverage like the US media’s treatment of the Duke rape case would not be allowed here in the UK. Media outlets who broadcast rapists proclaiming their innocence, or witnesses describing events would be in contempt of court and a mistrial might be declared.

    I’m sure the reason why these boys could be identified was because they hadn’t been charged with anything and thus there was no court to be in contempt of. Once they are charged I would guess there will be reporting restrictions. As the jurisdiction of Australian courts doesn’t stretch as far as the US, the issue is moot anyway.

    There’s a short explanation here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_judice

    Posted by delphyne | November 3, 2006, 7:05 pm
  78. This is what porn is breeding – it’s now stark staring reality in our faces – It’s happening NOW! Porn not only is NOT about love, it actively promotes hatred against women, it promotes women as unhuman, it promotes the evil selfish sense of entitlement in very young boys, and with the technological ease of sharing anything you like these days, it is spreading like cancer – porn is cancer in these fuckers heads. After reading the circumstances not only of the rape, but of the delay in even addressing that this poor girl was traumatised and the lack of any sense of wrongdoing with these fuckers, plus the fact that the video was viewed 9000 times, I am unable to talk to a man now, let alone look at one, without feeling sickened. Enough is enough – I thought I had felt as sick as it was possible to feel, but nope, I was wrong.

    Posted by Daisy Puke | November 5, 2006, 9:09 am
  79. I remember the glen ridge rape case-horrific, I could not believe it then and cannot believe it now. I recently heard about a gang rape in 1994. Three british soldiers grabbed a girl from the back of her boyfriends bike and drove her to a remote location where they stripped her, raped her, beat her and hacked her to death with a spade (they even cleaved her face) and buried her body! They served ten years for manslaughter after the british government fought for their release despite the fact that they showed no remorse (merely smirked during the trial). The attitude of these men and the glen ridge men seems to be the same as these australian boys-how can it be a crime if i was having fun! This seems to be the overiding defense to these actions-its fun for the attackers so why should they be punished! What hope is there?

    Posted by sally | November 7, 2006, 12:56 pm
  80. I know this news has been around months ago but I just have to spread it so girls around the world – not just in the West, but also in the East – will know the evil the male species can do. No matter what age they start, men can be downright beastly.

    Evil knows no age, no sex, no religion or race. Evil exists even in the most innocent of faces.

    Posted by maldita | December 9, 2006, 10:48 pm
  81. I wish that there was a way that we could just protect 1 innocent child from something like this! Maldita is absolutely right evil knows no age, no sex, religion or race. But for someone to imply that maybe this would not have happen if she was covered up? WTF! We see little girls 2/3 years old running around in the summer in bathing suits, does this mean that they deserve something like this to happen? I think that is just ignorant stupidity. I think that as women and parents that we must each try to do our best to educate our daughters and sons so that maybe just maybe we might be able to save 1 child just 1. If we start with 1 maybe we can save more. It seems that as time goes on that we are going to have to teach our children to distrust everyone. What kind of a world are we going to have to create to keep our children safe.

    Posted by celhabti | December 11, 2006, 3:45 am
  82. This is complete wrong and those boys need to pay big time but we are also forgetting the fact of “Where did they get the idea…parent, older brother or watching shows not intended for them?” Who knows making an example of them would be great, it may not solve the problem but it may prevent others from thinking about doing it!

    Posted by AngryGuy | January 5, 2007, 12:58 am
  83. I just found this now. I am so very heart sick. How do we let this happen? How??? My fingers and brain and heart are numb, too numb to write anything intelligent, how could ther be anything intelligent to write? It is so sickening and has occurred before and God forgive us, may be occurring more times than we know now or in the future.

    Posted by SurfaceEarth | February 14, 2007, 5:57 pm
  84. Terrible event. A few comments:

    Although I missed seeing the full YouTube video – Current Affairs programmes in Australia, shown at 6.30 pm on several free-to-air commercial channels (like your NBC or CBS), repeated edited highlights for weeks on end. These included the girl being pushed around, sworn at, having her hair set on fire (while she begged them not to), being pissed on, being pushed onto her knees next to boys’ lower bodies (with the “relevant” body parts blurred out) and finally having her clothes & bakpak thrown into the river (again with her begging them not to do that either). It made me wonder what else was on the video, when we were constantly subjected to this extraordinary level of explicitness. Didn’t it just repeat the assault again & again to show this???

    The guys were were stoked – happy, cheerful, jumping up & down, waving at the camera, looking like average schoolkids in the playground who have just won the footy final. Their images were shown on TV, but cannot be shown if charges are to be laid, nor can their names be given, as they are minors (Australian law). The girl was over the age of consent which is 16 here, but if she did not consent, then it is some form of sexual assault & torture (rape requires vaginal or anal penetration).

    You mention that they were white. They would be. The population of Australia is about 20 million, with at most 200,000 aboriginal Australians, very few of whom live in this state – Victoria. Most are in the north, central & western regions of Aust. There would be none in Werribee. It is also worth considering that Werribee is a medium sized, incredibly boring, working class country town in the middle of nowhere. Not much to do. No excuse however.

    Something that frightens me the most is the use of mobile phones in rape cases. A women consents to sex with one man, only to find that, in a couple of worst case scenarios in Sydney, over 40 have turned up. Or they just grab a girl & text every guy they can think of. So scary. And we thought giving mobile phones to our girls would PROTECT them if they got into a bad situation.

    Posted by Ali | February 15, 2007, 6:26 am
  85. Sorry to drivel on. Just to support ROOSTER – I am a qualified Victorian solicitor (lawyer), tho’ not practicing. The identity & images of minors are always surpressed whatever the crime. Juvenile justice operates under a separate system from mainstream crime in Aust.

    There are also variable laws relating to suppression orders in various state jurisdictions for adults being questioned, facing charges or appearing in court. Once a charge is laid, most states require blurring of the accused’s face & often name supression in serious crimes. South Aust. has the most notorious suppression laws – an order is made in nearly every criminal case, which leads to true crime books sold in every other state being banned in S.A. if the court process is ongoing (although books CAN crawl across borders). Same with TV programmes. Worst impact is on national newspapers, who have to print different editions overnight to comply with different state identity laws. Photographs are banned in court – an artist supplies the media with a picture which usually bears no resemblance to the accused!!!

    2 reasons for all this:
    To protect the accused – to ensure that potential jurors are not familiarized with media images & so assume they must be guilty; & to ensure that eyewitness evidence reflects what the witness actually SAW, not what they saw in the media.
    To protect the Crown case – to ensure that solid evidence led for the prosecution is not tainted & therefore leads to an acquittal or a mistrial e.g. due to problems with eyewitness evidence or by deluded people swearing blind that this looks like the weird chap who was hanging around their dead aunt’s house in 1966.

    Posted by Ali, Melbourne | February 15, 2007, 7:15 am
  86. This is a horrific crime. These boys deserve the worse. If they are sent to jail, they will be raped.

    But I like how this entery wrote the word blackfolk (that’s a little racist in this day and age)

    Posted by C-Lo | March 13, 2007, 11:12 pm
  87. C-Lo, actually “Black Folks” is the name of a blog. It’s meant to be satirical.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | March 13, 2007, 11:21 pm
  88. This might seem really mean and nasty… HELL I almost want to say I dont care, but it would be a lie. I am just so outraged that these little pervs did this though… If they were to be raped in prison…… I wouldnt feel bad. I dont advocate for tit for tat retaliation… but damn….

    On the other hand I do agree with those in here who said it was internet/porn influence.

    “In my book, if little boys and young men wish to act like beasts, they have already violated any prior social contracts – they are as much pissing on society as they are pissing on this girl. Their act isn’t just literal – it is symbolic, a dare, a taunt to see how much they, as males, can bend, rend, or mutilate the common social fabric. This rape was/is their rite of passage into their own self-made future.”

    This is so so true. It sucks and almost sounds like an excuse to say that porn is the reason why they thought this was ok… or why they were desensitized, though it may well be true. How convenient to claim that the victim wanted this…

    Heart I clicked your links. I believe the last one is no longer working. But in one of the articles there is a comment stating that the girl had a “minor” mental disorder………… EEEEEEEEEERRRRRRR down playing… barely mentioning the fact that she may well not have realized how wrong the situation was until it was too late… what the hell??

    Posted by Divine Purpose | March 14, 2007, 2:38 am
  89. Wishing them to be raped (and in this case, they would have to be gang raped by 14 men) is different than not crying for them if one of them is raped or hit by a truck. God forbid we lose one of these stellar members of the human race.

    Posted by gingermiss | March 14, 2007, 4:57 am
  90. Yeah, Divine Purpose, she was developmentally disabled, which makes things even more horrifying. :(

    Heart

    Posted by Heart | March 14, 2007, 5:09 am
  91. Gingermiss, you’re right… I cant quite put my finger on it but I still just felt awful saying that, you know? Like I was a terrible person for not feeling bad about the possibility that they will be raped themselves in prison. This often happens to rapists once in jail. sigh… I am working out what is actually within me that makes me feel “bad” and what has been taught to me to make me feel it IS “bad.” I dont know… on one hand I feel they deserve an equal punnishment for the crime they committed… on the other hand I “feel” bad for even saying that… like one does not justify the other, but I really do feel that if the shoe were on the other foot and I dont mean filling some perverts dream of multiple women throwing themselves at him, but multiple men FORCING themselves on him… maybe they will “GET” it? Maybe when they experience first hand how it feels to have someone take advantage of you, to use their strength and power to take advantage of you, to be forced to live for the rest of your LIFE in the stigma of that force, to feel like it is YOUR fault… you shouldnt have been so sexy etc… if they experienced ALL of that maybe they would better understand WHY this is wrong.

    Too often men tell themselves, “she wanted it, so its ok” that is bullshit and a rationalization to make it “ok.” Whether a woman protests verbally or not, is not “proof” that she wanted it… silence does not equal acceptance… But maybe if they had to experience these things they would see the error (huge freakin understatement) of their ways and just how wrong their actions are.

    Posted by Divine Purpose | March 14, 2007, 5:22 am
  92. I cannot even bare to think about that Heart… It sickens me and it just makes me want to cry… I just cannot believe this… these boys surely are a product of their environment… Women everywhere are just lining up to be pissed on, set on fire, degraded… it makes me sick, Heart. I have experienced rape… as a little girl… I was not developmentally disabled just too young to understand and easily influenced that it was my fault by my (RELATIVE) attackers… I just dont understand WHY? My big sister figure was raped when she was THREE by her 14 year old cousin… Did she ask for it? did she enjoy it? what is the reasoning and rationalization there??? Just a sick twisted mind… ugh.

    Posted by Divine Purpose | March 14, 2007, 5:26 am
  93. i was sick to my stomach when i read this. i almost threw up. there this is something cruel and horribly messed up in thos boys minds. i suggest you put them in jail as soon as they hit 18 for their crimes. its unfair that this happens to a girl and they almost get off scott free. its horror that no one should ever have to face. its just sick that these boys dont know the value of someones life. if they like rape so much than someone should rape them and video tape it and send it to the rest of the world and have them laughed at and humiliated. rape is sometimes more horribe than death. death the victim is set free but when you get raped you life completely gets destroyed and alot end up liveing day to day with all that torture in their head and end up with suicide. i actually hope one day they get raped so they know what its like and i hope no one cares. people should think before they do anything. people who dont appreciate life dont deserve it

    Posted by jane turnur | May 8, 2007, 8:41 am
  94. The boys behaved as if the victim(the girl) was a thing, a toy for having some fun.Indicates serious psychopathic problems.Is this not shown in the millions of porn sites being circulated worldwide? Arent women subjected to filthy humiliations and degradations in them? Doesnot this indicate that a vast segment of the viewers actually enjoy this? What else is bukkake?

    Punishing the criminals doesnot seem to stem the tide of such crimes.
    Without understanding the cause we cannot treat the disease efffectively.There is one possible theory as to its origin.The roots of this problem lie far deeper than we can imagine.How many children have received positive love and affirmation while growing up?How many boys grow up in homes of love and harmony.

    The truth is that many parents use their children as emotional punchbags.In some families the mothers may treat the boy child brutally, partly due to the mistreatment received at the hands of her husband, which leads to a hatred of males and which she vents on the boy child.This appears as merciless beatings, sadistic verbal abuses…the victim realises he has been abused only when he feels the hatred for women inside himself, when he becomes an adult.

    If he is lucky, he may go in for professional treatment to heal the inner wounds. Awareness meditation also can really help.
    If he doesnot realise he has a problem, woe be to him!

    If somebody enjoys the filthy trash of perversions being dished out in porn channels and porn stories, it indicates festering deep emotional wounds inside him/her.He is in need of urgent help.

    This issue is discussed in detail at http://www.blazinggrace.org by Mike Genung.

    Posted by Sudheer | May 14, 2007, 6:38 pm
  95. The truth is that many parents use their children as emotional punchbags.

    Yet, the only example of this is about the mothers!

    In some families the mothers may treat the boy child brutally, partly due to the mistreatment received at the hands of her husband, which leads to a hatred of males and which she vents on the boy child.This appears as merciless beatings, sadistic verbal abuses…the victim realises he has been abused only when he feels the hatred for women inside himself, when he becomes an adult.

    Posted by chasingmoksha | May 14, 2007, 6:51 pm
  96. Yeah– what about boy children who watch their fathers mistreating their mothers, their sisters, or other women? What about boy children who come across their fathers’ porno stashes? What about boy children exposed to the misogyny all around them, immediately, in their family, amongst their friends and their friends’ families, on the media, in movies, in music, in magazines?

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 14, 2007, 6:56 pm
  97. And what about boy children who grow up hearing that they were made in God’s image, but their sisters and mothers were made to serve him and all men? What about boy children who grow up being taught in holy books that women are harlots and seducers who cannot be trusted, they are deceived, they are deceivers. I think these are more likely as sources for men hating women.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 14, 2007, 6:59 pm
  98. What about father’s fucking their daughters. God, I am still sick over Larry Flynt, or father’s making their daughters fuckable for other men?

    Blame it on the mothers, because God knows she did so well yesterday having a U.S. holiday and all. Well not exactly, it was a Sunday, and Sunday is ususally a day off anyway, at least from the grind, not the other duties.

    Posted by chasingmoksha | May 14, 2007, 7:42 pm
  99. I don’t know why I said father’s instead of fathers.

    Posted by chasingmoksha | May 14, 2007, 7:43 pm
  100. Dear Heart,

    Your reply to my comment is entirely true.I am recovering. But I am in no way justifying the criminals in this case.

    Was trying to say that the responsibility lies with each of us, male or female.The issue can be resolved only when each of us become accountable for his/her thoughts,words and actions and the effect they have on the global aura.
    As you were indicating, what we focus on magnifies.

    Peace.

    Posted by Sudheer | May 15, 2007, 5:00 pm
  101. Yeah, Sudheer, I hear what you’re saying, and peace to you, too.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | May 15, 2007, 9:49 pm
  102. They got away with it. They pled guilty (what else could they do faced with that evidence), they persuaded the judge they were remorseful so he let them off with youth supervision. No jail time for teenage gang rapists in Australia it appears:

    “‘Callous’ teens escape jail for sex attack film

    The Age
    Julia Medew
    November 6, 2007

    EIGHT teenagers have escaped a jail term for their role in the notorious “Werribee DVD” after a judge ruled they should complete a rehabilitation program to prevent them repeating their “callous” crimes.

    A Children’s Court judge convicted seven of the eight youths yesterday after they pleaded guilty to making a film in Werribee last year, which showed them forcing a 17-year-old girl to perform sex acts with two of the boys while the others spat on her, poked her with sticks and repeatedly set her hair alight.

    The film, which sparked a police investigation after excerpts were broadcast on national television, also showed the boys urinating on the girl and writing the film’s title, “C— The Movie” on her breasts.

    One boy says, ” F—, she’s the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen,” during the film, which was sold to students at Melbourne schools for $5 apiece.

    After describing the offences as callous and cruel, the judge yesterday sentenced six of the teens who played the most active roles in the attack to 12 and 18-month-long youth supervision orders.

    The order requires the teens to report for up to six hours a week to a youth justice worker, who will counsel them and, in some cases, order them to perform community work for the period dictated by their sentence.

    Two of the teens who played lesser roles in the attack were sentenced to a probation order for 12 months, which requires them to report weekly to a youth justice worker.

    The worker will develop a plan with the teens to work through problems that might have contributed to their offending, which usually involves organising hobbies for them or talking to teachers about getting them help at school.

    All of the boys were ordered to complete the Male Adolescent Program for Positive Sexuality, an educational program run by the Royal Children’s Hospital that is designed to prevent re-offending, which the judge said was not “an easy option”.

    The judge, who cannot be named, said he believed all of the teens were remorseful and said he had chosen not to convict one of the boys because he appeared to arrive at the scene by accident and leave before the attack was over.

    The judge said the DVD shocked the community.

    “Your behaviour was cowardly, brutal and, above all, a serious breach of the law … it was a sustained attack by a pack of young men upon a vulnerable young woman,” he said. If they had not pleaded guilty they would have been at “significant risk” of serving time in youth detention, he said.

    The court heard that the victim, a 17-year-old girl who suffers from a mild intellectual delay, was terrified during the attack and continues to fear she will be recognised in public.

    In a victim impact statement read to the court, the girl said: “I’m shocked that they did this to me … my life has been changed forever.”

    The court heard the girl’s father, who only became aware of the attack two hours before excerpts of the film were shown on a television program in October last year, had suffered significant emotional and financial damage. He could not be contacted last night to comment on the sentence.

    The eight teenagers, now aged 16 to 18, pleaded guilty last month to four offences over the attack, including procuring an act of sexual penetration by intimidation, assault and making child pornography.

    Three other teens charged over the DVD will contest the charges in December, meaning the victim will have to testify in court.”

    http://tinyurl.com/3d7e3h

    Posted by delphyne | November 7, 2007, 11:13 pm
  103. “C— The Movie”

    That’s the subtitle of all pornography.

    Posted by sammanberg | November 7, 2007, 11:33 pm
  104. I think this refusal to severly punish those boys tells volumes.

    We are living in a world where boys and men get away with this all the time.

    There are ways to deal with this sort of thing, and lesbian feminist have had their tactics. We were more organized and able to deal with the molestors and rapists and harassers in the past, but I don’t know what this situation is today.

    Posted by Satsuma | November 8, 2007, 1:37 am
  105. I don’t want to add more triggering material to this thread, but I feel it’s important to know that this girl’s gang rape was not the only abuse committed on the tape and I’m unaware of other charges being filed against the boys.

    One part of the DVD had a segment titled “Pimp My Wife”, in which a group of boys parodied MTV’s “Pimp My Ride” TV show by apparently increasing a girl’s appeal by waxing her hair off and changing her clothing. The boys also filmed themselves creating chlorine bombs, assaulting homeless people, and throwing eggs at taxi drivers.

    The entire “Cunt: The Movie” DVD, with the “Pimp My Wife” section, the rape, and the other content, was sold at SEVERAL local high schools for $5 a copy.

    Prostitution has been legal for more than 20 years in the Australian region where these boys live, and I can’t help but think of how most them have likely paid to sexually (ab)use prostituted women or had their fathers pay for them to do so. Born into a culture that taught the boys from their births in the late 1980s that it’s not only acceptable for men to sexually defile and abuse women but legal, cool, and profitable, this girl didn’t stand a chance and the thousands more who have been raped, are being raped, and will be raped won’t be considered worth a damn more than this girl.

    It’s a connection radical feminists have long made, but it’s popularly known to be true even if pornography’s defenders try to deny it that prostitution whets boys appetites for destruction much the same way porn users have to keep upping then ante for their next sex fix. The slasher movie Hostel draws the line between the good times men have abusing prostitutes as real-time pornography that gets dull so men have to move on to more extreme abuses to fulfill the artificially-inflamed thrill of hurting others they nurtured from being socially-sanctioned to (ab)use prostituted women:

    “You know, I’ve been everywhere and the bottom line is: Pussy is pussy. You know, every strip club, every whore house, every… It’s all the same shit. You know, I just fucked a girl two days ago and I don’t even remember the color of her tits. But this… This is something you never forget, right?”

    Escalation doesn’t only happen with pornography use, as animal lovers who know that torturing animals very often escalates to more “challenging” human victims can attest. For these boy rapists, the conquest of raping a mentally disabled girl is old news and their next victims will have to present new challenges to keep them sufficiently stimulated in the sadistically pornographic ways they’ve been brought up to relish.

    Posted by sammanberg | November 8, 2007, 2:18 am
  106. Under Pisaquari’s Law the makers AND *purchasers* of the film would be sentenced to jail with extensive radical feminist reading requirements. (say that last part 3 times fast)

    Posted by pisaquaririse | November 8, 2007, 2:59 am
  107. “The [youth justice] worker will develop a plan with the teens to work through problems that might have contributed to their offending, which usually involves organising hobbies for them or talking to teachers about getting them help at school.”

    ah, yes. because clearly these boys are sick, pathological rapists because they don’t have a stamp collection and are bad at algebra. nothing a hobby and a tutor can’t fix!

    “The judge said the DVD shocked the community. ‘Your behaviour was cowardly, brutal and, above all, a serious breach of the law.’”

    um, you forgot sick, horrific, appalling, inhuman . . . oh, sorry, that’s not important. the important thing is YOU BROKE TEH LAW1!!!11!!

    “The judge, who cannot be named, said he believed all of the teens were remorseful.”

    two possible translations:
    - the boys were sorry they got caught.
    - the boys were sorry nobody else understood how cool and fun what they did was.

    RAGE . . . sorrow . . . RAGE . . . sorrow :(

    Posted by ladoctorita | November 8, 2007, 3:15 am
  108. Most people are horrified that porn breeds copycat boys like this. I am even more horrified that they get away with it most probably because judges and juries watch porn, too.

    Hating women is part of EVERYONE’S desensitization process. After I inadvertently stopped watching TV (and that wasn’t even porn!) and got resensitized to reality (to which I owe my feminist awakening), I was unable to watch shows I enjoyed before, even shows like Law and Order: SVU.

    I checked CNN.com last night to have their highly popular video of a 13-year-old girl being video-raped by a man at the store sticking his cell phone up her skirt. Who is sicker, the video rapist, CNN employees who rebroadcast her video rape, or that there is an audience who wants to see/get off on seeing that happen to her? It was one of the most popular videos. If it was really about getting the guy caught, they could have easily cut half the video frame out to only show stills of the man, and not what he was doing, or the girl it was happening to.

    Porn only makes a fraction of men rapists, but it makes all citizens incompetent jurors and judges. They are merely molded consumers of sadism who find life imitating art to still be enough like their favorite consumable art. And this sentencing is the result. Is there a way to protest their inadequate sentences as a human rights violation?

    Also, I love how today wommensspace has this article up, while Pandagon has this:

    http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/07/dapper-don-wildmon-to-pentagon-protect-soldiers-from-porn/

    Sometimes I wonder why they’re on your blogroll, Heart. The striking contrast between the articles you both chose to post today is not a frivolous difference among feminists–it’s very telling. Read the comments and you’ll see that they hate women and should not be called feminists. I mean, I’m pretty sure Bill Maher is against rape like they are, but we wouldn’t call him a feminist, now would we?

    Or am I missing something? Is it the whole, feminists-are-so-marginalized-by-the-mainstream-we-can’t-afford-to-accuse-people-of-not-being-real-feminists?

    Posted by K.A. | November 8, 2007, 4:35 am
  109. It’s hard to say who is a real feminist these days.

    Look at all the people who wanted to be on the Don Imus show for years, and now we’ll get to see all the people who line up to be on the show when it’s on another station.

    The rapes and violations are horrifying, and yet, people seem to have no sense of how pornographic even T.V. has become.
    Law and Order SVU is a prime example and I’m glad this was mentioned here.

    Pornography is one of the biggest profit centers at Marriotte Hotels, for example. DVD in room rentals bring in more money than the food and drink concessions. Marriotte is owned by Mormons. You don’t see christian right wing groups going after the corporate supporters of pornography do you?

    It’s a peculiar thing, connecting these dots, knowing that mainstream media saturates the world with questionable images of women, so you do have to step back, you do have to see what people are buying, and you can speak against this stuff.

    I do know from personal experience in the lesbian community here, that many of the women who thought lesbian pornography or the horror that was The L Word, was fine and dandy were some of the creepiest and most mentally disturbed women I have ever met. We are sinking to the bottom here, and young people don’t really have the tools for properly critiquing and understanding the corrupt nature of media to begin with.

    Gambling used to raise money for government programs, online sports betting, DVD home made porn, and all the kids who bought the Australian rape DVD.

    I’ve never liked any of it, but I recall Susan Brownmiller saying quite recently, “The aggressors have won.”

    Posted by Satsuma | November 8, 2007, 8:29 am
  110. How can this ever be funny? It’s cruel, selfish and these guys should be in jail and do more community work than given by the judge. After all, they dared to hurt someone so bad.

    Are they even feeling remorse over what they had done?

    Posted by MJ | November 8, 2007, 9:31 am
  111. This is so, so sad, but so predictable in a world where porn is everywhere.
    Like, so many women this has trigger my memories of being gang-raped when I was a prostitute. Also, I remember so clearly the hate in the hard-core porn I saw as a young child.
    I cry for Julia, and I hope with all my heart that she get sufficient support and love to recover in some way.
    Even though the violence in my life ended 13 years ago, I still have the trauma on a day-to-day level.
    I know that the porn does teach how to rape and treat women and children as pieces of dirt. There are to many women that have survived male violence who know this connection. But, survivors are made to be silent.
    When I was gang-raped, with extreme violent, I remembered too clearly the images my stepdad had shown me. One of my way of coping was to pretend it was just a photo.
    Porn is evil, and must be destroy.

    Posted by Rebecca | November 8, 2007, 11:48 am
  112. Such good analysis and deep compassion in all of your comments. Rebecca, bless you; you have “been there” and instead of hardening your heart in response to the horrors you have been subjected to, you have deepened your caring. You are a triumph and an inspiration!

    Men rule the world and by and large they love porn and downplay the irreparable harm it does to women and children. Pastors, judges, doctors, politicians…care to check what is on their computers, anyone? And we can never restrict porn in American because of the First Amendment? Well, somehow laws have been passed to force porn makers to at least pretend they have verified their actors and actresses are 18 and above and to do HIV checks. If there can be SOME legislation affecting porn, why not further analyses of harmful backsplash from it and imposition of further legislation? Nibble at it and nibble at it. Bug the living daylights out of your legislators. Wives and girlfriends, could something accidently happen to your men’s porn caches? Over and over, perhaps, until it is cost prohibitive for them to keep replacing what goes missing?

    Sometimes when I hear about events such as this particular one I pray for the healing of the victim and that the perpetrators may come to sincerely regret it. Who knows what the universe has in store for such lovely lads if we focus our spiritual attention on them? And is there any way beyond prayer we can focus our love upon this young woman? Have any funds been set up to which we can contribute for her continued care and rehabilitation?

    Posted by Level Best | November 8, 2007, 2:29 pm
  113. If they’d been caught stealing a gnome from a neighbor’s garden or toilet papering their high school, then probation, community service, and whatever rehabilition can be found in hobby counseling would make sense. But as punishment for committing a violent crime? Particularly the rape of a disabled girl for porn profits? That’s just bullshit. Misogynist bullshit.

    Posted by CoolAunt | November 8, 2007, 2:43 pm
  114. One wonders for what possible crime they *might* have been imprisoned.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | November 8, 2007, 4:56 pm
  115. I can’t stop crying about this and the pain that porn puts into the world.
    It may because my cat is very ill, and that has let out feeling s that have been supressed all my life.
    I wish there be justice for the women and children who lives have been destroyed by porn. But, in the mean I do see the male justice system giving a damn.
    Women and children are not allow to speak out and to be hear, for when they can prove their rapes and physical abuses, and mental abuses are connected to porn it rejected as an “indivdual story”, so of little importance. That is the power of porn.
    I feel so much pain for girl in Australia. My stomach aches with grief for her ordeal. I really hope she has the support she deserves.
    I have nothing for the “boys”. I wish they had a long sentence, but justice is so rare. I am terrified that they will become more and more violent, and their hatred of women will continue. I do see why they would change, when they have been rewarded by being let off, and have some support from their community.
    It does surprise to learn there are brothels in the area the crime happen in. From my experience of prostitution, the punters “practice” sadistic sex acts on the prostituted women. For, they do not matter,you can do experiment on prostitued women as they have no feelings. It is behind closed. It is hard not to believe that who such violence on prostituted women will go and rape other women or children.

    Posted by Rebecca | November 8, 2007, 5:35 pm
  116. Those pricks can’t hide for their entire lives. Those images are saved, and they can be age-advanced using computer graphics, as the photos of children missing for several years are.

    The pictures can be posted, the pricks identified, and women warned.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | November 8, 2007, 6:53 pm
  117. “One wonders for what possible crime they *might* have been imprisoned.”

    The rape of another man, perhaps. Well, just so long as the male victim was white, het, not physically or mentally disabled – your average, red-blooded, porn-lovin’, woman-rapin’, white guy.

    Posted by CoolAunt | November 8, 2007, 9:50 pm
  118. Time for me to practice what I write about the spirit and spiral of our Connection (where also the pelicans on the wing twist-spiral into the sea, finding food for their children), because these are such challenging days.

    It’s so damn hard to stay open, aware and capable of joy in the face of the evil onslaught of global culture’s chronic rapism. Because it’s so hard (pun intended), we really need each other’s moral support and spiritual comfort.

    A couple of books, taken together, have much to say about rapism and what we each might do.

    Twenty years ago (when patriarchy-busting books had a better chance of publication but I never saw it), Riane Eisler wrote The Chalice and The Blade. Recently, I read it for the first time in tandem with Maureen Dowd’s Are Men Necessary?, in which the award-winning Dowd, from her perch at one of patriarchy’s “finest” newspapers, identified feminism as “dead.”

    Wrong, Maureen Dowd. We’re very much alive, but after suffering patriarchy’s ongoing onslaughts against “uppity” wimmin and vulnerable girls, we simply need to get a second, third and fourth wind across the tidal wave of our fierce love — for this planet, for the children, for our friends of flora and fauna, for ourselves. The tide of our feminism lives and roars stronger than ever.

    Maureen Dowd’s book captures recent sociobiological research which attributes cause for male violence and communication deficit to the Y chromosome (growing smaller as a chromosomal aberration, with diminished genetic material, in each generation) and male left-brain focus.

    Male sociobiologists attribute women’s stunningly original individual communication differences to our right-left brain integration (although Dowd didn’t discuss the heft of the female corpus callosum which links our right and left hemispheres). The stunningly original way we communicate frustrates men. Uh. Duh.

    Male sociobiologists also seek our sympathy for the male Y-chromosomal biology which, they say, necessarily rules men and makes them dominant if not violent in service to spreading genetic material around by capturing (sometimes raping) females. The Y chromosome of Genghis Khan has been tracked to about 16 million males living today across a wide swath of the world, given the rape rates of the “great” Khan. Do I detect a cruel glee from the men who had the funds to prove these “fun facts”? Uh. Duh.

    How does the Dowd book relate to The Chalice and The Blade (and the present rapist global culture)?

    The Chalice and The Blade gives well-footnoted chapter after chapter on the social and culture reasons of “why” rapism (called dominator culture in the book). Around 7,000 years ago, invading violent hordes of rapist men seemingly arose out of nowhere. Global genetic mutation? The “whip” of the Y chromosome, as one of the sociobiologists of the Dowd book called it?

    Many of you already have read The Chalice and The Blade. From the academically rigorous footnoting, it looks indisputable (even though patriarchy — uh, duh — teaches us none of this in compulsory school) that 30,000 years of “Western” partnership cultures (matrilineal/chalice/arts/goddess) began losing ground 7,000 years ago to the dominator takeover (patriarchal/blade/ violence/war god) in which men’s forcible enslavement and rape of women was the major cultural feature.

    Although it took generations of domination to nearly erase womankind’s way, men’s rapism became the model for the other “isms” (race, class) and all forms of actual and virtual slavery enforced by the blade of weaponry and the hierarchy of hatred. Globally, in diverse cultures, the reverence for living and making life (symbolized by chalice/womb/creativity) became displaced by the worship of death and taking life (blade/phallus/destruction).

    By Eisler’s analysis (heavily footnoted), every wave of feminism/humanism seeking return to the chalice has resulted and can always be expected to result in violent backlash (rapes, pornography, more wars, lessened freedoms) to keep the dominators in place.

    However, we need not despair. Chaos theory suggests that there can be unpredictable places where cultural transformation can take off. Spiritual heritage suggests miracle, magic, metaphysics can occur.

    Life evolves. Violent beings can also become extinct. T. Rex no longer terrorizes victims and in this, the stars may have helped, literally. What might the stars do if we invoked cosmic protection against male cruelty?

    We obviously lack the nukes (or the will to violence) that would let us materially counter those dealing in rape writ large as potential nuclear war or other planetary destruction. I invite us each to consider what we might do spiritually, knowing that we share at least the connection of the undivided loyalty to the chalice over the blade.

    Fierce, starry love and hugs,
    JB

    Posted by JBSproull | November 9, 2007, 4:29 am
  119. Well I am not a soldier, but I am a serviceman, and I like some porn (the porn that isn’t disrespect to women), and I definitely am not misogynist.

    Porn that isn’t disrespectful to women? And who decided it wasn’t disrespectful to women? You? Who decided you weren’t misogynist? You? Not too full of entitlement and self appointed authority, are you? Now stop deciding and dictating to women what is or isn’t disrespectful to women. I don’t remember electing you to speak for me, boy.

    In the meanwhile, understand that when a woman reads porn, it feels a little like a Jew reading a Nazi manual.

    Most couples have porn in their bedrooms, and I doubt they would like being referred to as misogynist either.

    How would you know what’s in most couple’s bedrooms? What are you doing in most couple’s bedrooms? Do most couples invite you into their bedrooms? Why? Well, I’ve been in plenty of bedrooms and I don’t recall seeing any porn there. And I can definitely tell you there’s no porn in mine or my partner’s bedroom.

    As to what misogynist like or don’t like, who cares?

    Also I resent the implication that porn watchers are also costumers of prostitution. I have never in my life paid for sex, and very few of my friends who like porn have paid for sex either.

    Of course you pay for sex. You buy porn, don’t you?

    Porn is simply just adult entertainment…

    Who’s entertainment and at who’s expense?

    ….and just because you like adult entertainment doesn’t make you are a pervert…

    So I can assume you write to your mother and grandmother and church congregation about this? Well, golly gee whiz, why not?

    ….anymore than wearing high heels and tight pants implies that you want to get raped.

    Well, that’s sure not what you boys say in the courtroom.

    The vast content of porn, on the legal market, does not depict violence against women. Though I will admit that a lot of porn is disrespectful to women, but not all of it. Certainly not the porn I like.

    Of course, not. Not the porn you like. But you’re not a pervert either. Peeping Toms that look at the naked bodies of women they don’t even know, are not perverts, dammit.

    Most porn promotes safe sex, and kindness in love making. What’s more damaging to the human psyche;
    senseless gratuitous violence that we see on TV on every hour of primetime, or exposure to love aking?

    Since when did pornified fucking become love making? That’s the trouble with porn. Under its influence, you boys can’t distingush between rape, sex, lovemaking and violence.

    “Pornography” literally means the writing of harlots or depictions of acts of prostitutes. “Porne” in Greek, literally means whore. But somehow in your twisted little boy mind, this is kind and respectful towards women and not misogynist?

    Porn is the war room where the soldiers are trained. Porn’s little soldiers then go out and commit those acts they have learned and been trained in on women. Porn is the instruction. Rape, battering and prostitution is the practice. But oh, no, no, no, this isn’t gratuitous violence. This is love making!

    Well, try spreading that love around. Go ahead and try it on another guy. See how kind, respectful and loving he finds it.

    Luckynkl, you are starting to sound very anti-military, and I am starting to take offense.

    I don’t support death, destruction, trained assassins, hired killers or the imperialistic invasion and colonization of other people by those with slave/master mentaities. You act like that’s a bad thing.

    The vast majority of us are not disrespectful to women, and without us there would be little standing to protect you from chaos.

    Oh, spare me your protection racket. I mean, just who is it I need protection from? Isn’t that a little like having the fox guard the henhouse?

    I don’t need you to protect me, boy. I need protection *from* you. Besides, it gets old having to pull you boys out from under the bed and hear y’all screaming for your mommies every time you hear a loud noise. As usual, you boys have everything all upside down and half-assed backwards. It’s women that protect you boys, not the other way around. It’s women that sacrifice their lives for you boys, not the other way around.

    Now stop acting like you’re doing women a favor. If you really want to do women a favor, stay away from us. Date men.

    Posted by luckynkl | November 9, 2007, 8:11 am
  120. Bravo Luckynkl – no we don’t men to protect us but we do need laws which protect women from men’s violence, not just laws which protect men from other men’s violence.

    Posted by jennifer drew | November 9, 2007, 1:46 pm
  121. Heh heh. Good to see you, jennifer drew!

    Actually, Luck meant to post this over at Pandagon, where I guess she is engaging in a troll smake. She meant to get the link from here and ended up posting here instead.

    I think I’ll leave it.
    :)

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | November 9, 2007, 4:49 pm
  122. I just now learned about the mixup because I just now read my e-mail. Sorry for any confusion. I was confused too, and thought I must have missed something, but didn’t have time to read this whole thread to find out!

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | November 9, 2007, 4:49 pm
  123. Hi Lucky!
    :-D      :-D      :-D

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | November 9, 2007, 9:05 pm
  124. I WISH Lucky’s post were a troll-smake. It’s actually countering a misogynist porn-loving military dude who is the epitome of the Pandagonian prostitution apologia of their readership and authors. It’s the oft repeated credo there: war totally sucks (though they did choose to enlist), ergo, poor helpless young boys deserve to degrade women if it at least makes them feel better. You know, the same boys who rape the residential women and sexually harass their female compatriots serving alongside them.

    The violent circle-jerk mentality from Australia is also at work in the army and it feeds off itself to grow–it’s just a matter of whether higher-ups allow it to begin in the first place before the memetic misogyny virus spreads and its symptoms are instead called “stress relief routine.” Woman-hating atmospheres become an institution within military culture that quickly cements itself unless it’s prevented in the first place. Once it’s there, forget it.

    Posted by K.A. | November 10, 2007, 2:51 am
  125. Satsuma – (Hmm, my favorite fragrance from The Body Shop! Wish I could still buy that soap from there, but Nestle indirectly owns it!)

    Law and Order SVU is a prime example and I’m glad this was mentioned here.

    We’re all desensitized. After I got rid of TV for a few years, I went to my friend’s house and she was watching some VH1 reality show about Hugh Hefner’s girlfriends living together. I was so revolted I was openly critical of her, which I wouldn’t normally be comfortable doing. What I realized is that before I got rid of TV, I would have maybe thought it was a stupid show made for stupid people with bad taste in entertainment and everything else in life, but I would have barely reacted! No horror, no emotional reaction. Sexism and female commodification are insidious. What I also think is so funny is that I’m the atheist and she’s the conservative Christian charismatic.

    Pornography is one of the biggest profit centers at Marriotte Hotels, for example. DVD in room rentals bring in more money than the food and drink concessions.

    I shouldn’t be shocked by this, but I am. That’s truly disgusting. More teaching men that they are entitled to women’s mutilated, distorted bodies on demand.

    If you want to ever go to a different hotel, there are websites devoted to listing porn-free ones. I believe the site is run by and caters to Christians, but I’ll be using it when necessary.

    Marriotte is owned by Mormons.

    I didn’t know that! What is it with Christian hypocrisy?!

    Contrast the issue on the other blog favoring military access to porn with Sweden’s policy of government officials/military not using porny hotels or having shops on base:

    http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1235&date=20050406

    They are much closer to recognizing how degrading women is a human rights violation. It’s unacceptable. I really want to expatriate there sometimes, but they have weird laws about prosecuting rape. And the place I wanted to move, Malmo, is now overrun by gang-raping expatriates. Darn.

    I do know from personal experience in the lesbian community here, that many of the women who thought lesbian pornography or the horror that was The L Word, was fine and dandy were some of the creepiest and most mentally disturbed women I have ever met.

    That’s interesting that you said that. I only have (well, had) one lesbian friend from HS, and I have to say the same of her and her girlfriend. Totally F-ed up. They eventually did internet porn because “we want a big screen TV.” She told me this even though I had just discovered the guy I was with was a total loser mentally ill misogynist (porn helped him with the misogynist part of his losery mental problems) and I was completely broken up about it (another reason I found my way here besides the TV diet). In hindsight, I think she was so weird that she specifically told me she was doing live internet porn BECAUSE that’s what was happening to me at the time with that guy. I argued with her, stopped talking to her after that. Oh, and she loved the L Word too, though I am not familiar with what’s wrong with it.

    Maybe this issue has been beaten to death a thousand times in the past, or maybe it’s even taboo in feminism because we’re already marginalized by sheer number, but I really don’t think pro-porn/prostitution liberals should call themselves feminists. “Reading Mein Kampf and watching Holocaust footage is a valid way for me to ease the tension in my life when I’m having problems with my Jewish boss.” Please. Not everyone deserves to feel EMPOWERED in any way that works for them at an abused group’s expense. Studies show most serial killers feel EMPOWERED when they hack up body parts. In Australia, we’re seeing the fusion of the Pandagonian military misogynists’ argument and the serial killer’s same motivation. It’s all on the same spectrum, hence the Aussie torturers unsurprisingly falling between the two. It’s not a valid argument.

    Posted by K.A. | November 10, 2007, 3:38 am
  126. I have been on hiatus. I seemed to have missed the memo that rape is legal now.

    FFS, they video’d it, they admitted a guilty plea (however, no sign whatsoever that they ever had any remorse). And they got… a very severe wrist slapping with do-gooders bending over backwards to help them.

    It is sentencing like this that will send the rape reporting rate — plummeting.

    Posted by stormy | November 10, 2007, 2:50 pm
  127. Pornography has normalized the rape of females by males.

    Only sexual assault on males can now result in a conviction for rape. Oh, those won’t stop being reported. You see, it’s only the male body that can now be violated.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | November 10, 2007, 3:32 pm
  128. Heart, may I ask that you no longer allow Rooster to post his hateful comments in this thread? It’s clear he’s more interested in protecting these rapists than he is in protecting wymyn from them, which is hardly surprising. Frankly, we don’t need that kind of energy in what is supposed to be a Women’s Space.

    Posted by Hecate | November 11, 2007, 1:06 am
  129. Yeah, Hecate, sorry you had to read all that. If Rooster shows up again, I won’t approve his comments. This post and his comments were from a year ago, October 2006. I wouldn’t approve them today, no way. Since so many women responded here, I won’t delete his posts now.

    Again, sorry you had to read that stuff. I’ve learned some things in the little over a year that I’ve been blogging.

    Heart

    Posted by womensspace | November 11, 2007, 1:55 am
  130. “It is sentencing like this that will send the rape reporting rate — plummeting.”

    Yes, stormy. It’s sickening. In my local paper the other day, there was a blurb about an 18-year-old man who plead guilty to charges of a “sexual act” with a 9-yr-old boy and is serving NO jail time… he just has to pay a $130 fine and register as a sex offender. That’s it.

    The same day, there was an AP article about a man who only served 2 months of his 20-year sentence before being “released, pending his appeal.” (WTF??) Somehow, his appeal was denied and he was never returned to prison – due to an “inadvertant error” by the DA’s office – and he spent 16 years as a free man, raised 3 sons, and then just this year, got stopped for a traffic violation…cops finally did a background check on him, and whoops, he was supposed to be in prison all this time! But now, it’s too late to make him do so, they’ve decided, so he’ll spend 6 months in jail for failing to register as a sex offender, then be free as a bird again.

    Oh, and this is the sentence from the article that REALLY gets to me -
    “He was arrested in 1997 and 2001 on domestic abuse incidents, but law enforcement officials did not realize on either occasion that he should have been behind bars.”
    Oh, no, abusing one’s wife/family isn’t at ALL a reason to be behind bars…!

    This shit never ends.

    Posted by Eeni B. Bella | November 11, 2007, 4:49 am
  131. Eeni, in the last year or two particularly, rapists (in most countries eg USA/Can/UK etc), who should be convicted as ‘slam dunk — no question you did it scumbag’ are getting off with either a very mild wrist-slapping, or a ‘not guilty’ verdict.

    It is particularly sickening when these arrogant jerks record their own crimes. If one filmed themselves committing burglary, would the courts be so lenient? Hell no. But these are ‘sex offences’ (primarily against females). Seems that the blindness that exists when ‘sex’ (often rape and/or exploitation) are filmed, exists when an actual slam dunk crime of rape, statutory rape, etc, is filmed. The crime element becomes invisible, and only the ‘sex’ remains. Same too in porn, it doesn’t matter what the degradation is, it becomes invisible. The reason porn looks ‘natural’ to pornhounds is that the woman is doing what is ‘natural’ — (sexually) servicing males. Woman (generic) is to service man, either in the bedroom, the kitchen, or as incubator for his ‘precious’ fucking seed. (If it is so damn precious, why are they made by the million? Seems a tad common and ordinary to me. Ova have the finite supply, and are not made on demand.)

    Anyway, lenient sentencing and not guilty verdicts for rape can only exist in a truly pornified society where it has become normalised. These Werribee teens were raised in a pornified society. When I was a child/teen, porn could be sought out by (usually male) teens/children. Now it is far more freely available. Add to that the constant re-inforcement of gender stereotypes in TV advertising (which now includes nudity). There is nothing wrong with nudity, however, nudity presented in advertising is always presented (when a female is used) as sexxxay (male nudity is usually presented as humour, with only a few exceptions). Don’t even get me started on the music videos — softcore porn set to music. The Werribee teens were raised in this climate. They did what society told them to do, treat females as objects for their amusement, they have no remorse, because they are in effect, successful little (sociopathic) patriarchs. The Judge should have known better, instead he sends the message loud and clear “just tone it down a little boyz; yeah wimmin were put on the earth to service menz, but that hair burning… just a tad too far, and it’s really really hard for me to do the usual “she’s a lying whore” because you filmed it… treat your ho’s as you wish behind closed doors like the rest of us do *wink*”.

    The *wink* was actually some sort of symbolic penis waving. WooHoo!

    The pro-pornstitution crowd would have us believe that porn is all harmless and fluffy, and “stay out of the bedrooms of consenting adults”. Porn isn’t just in those bedrooms, its influence is everywhere, and the pro-pornstitutioners know it. That is why they defend it so — the main purpose is for the subjugation of females as a (sex) class, the squirty orgasms are just a bonus on the side. This explains why porn has become so degrading (towards females), because it is that, the degradation, that is the real turn on.

    Posted by stormy | November 11, 2007, 7:45 am
  132. [Heart, look for my comment in the spammy queue! :) ]

    Posted by stormy | November 11, 2007, 7:46 am
  133. Hi Stormy!

    I discovered your blog too late. Never did get passed the lurker stage there.

    I click over every now and again hoping you’ve decided to return. Any chance you’ll reopen shop?

    *my fingers are crossed*

    Posted by Gayle | November 11, 2007, 5:59 pm
  134. They don’t go to jail. What a surprise?

    Posted by Kiuku | November 21, 2007, 5:00 pm
  135. Why does the rape and torture of a woman mean nothing?

    Posted by Kiuku | November 21, 2007, 5:06 pm
  136. Kiuku,

    Because males delight in it, en masse.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | November 21, 2007, 5:12 pm
  137. Even when it is filmed, it clearly doesn’t matter. How do young women go to jail for defending themselves against Dwayne Buckle (I’ll never forget that name) and when men and boys video tape their rape of a woman (mimicking porn) it still means nothing? Atleast in the case of the video tape, it is more difficult for the court to say the woman can be blame. I say more difficult because even when the woman is passed out on a video tape, they still say she wanted it.

    If there is no outrage, and these boys do not go to jail, all I can hope for, is that when they turn 18, someone hunts them down, and kills them.

    Posted by Kiuku | November 21, 2007, 5:19 pm
  138. Do video tapes, instead of offering proof, desensitize the males in the judicial system to the actual crime because it resembles their porn so much? I have to wonder. It seems the only logical conclusion.

    What if it was a boy being gang raped and tortured on film? Life in prison..probably.

    Posted by Kiuku | November 21, 2007, 5:23 pm
  139. Kiuku:

    Exactly.

    And there’s nothing we can do about it.

    It’s an avalanche.

    Posted by Mary Sunshine | November 21, 2007, 8:36 pm
  140. There is plenty we can do about it. Protest. Separate. Blog. Yes it is an avalanche. There are just too many men. It’s unnatural.

    Posted by Kiuku | November 22, 2007, 4:50 am
  141. What if it was a boy being gang raped and tortured on film? Life in prison..probably

    Unless it was our own military, doing it to suspected “terrorists” or enemy troops or whomever! And all with the protection of Bush and Homeland Security.

    We’ve got a generation of young men trained to fight and kill, who have grown up listening to music about raping and killing women, who think rape is funny.

    I think women are viewed as subhuman to many, many men. Consider the rape of the Haitian immigrant and her son. Six-10 teenagers raped and tormented the two for hours. Then, after they’d all left, one came back and left his cell phone number and told her where to find him! This is horrifying disconnection and complete and total lack of compassion and empathy.

    Posted by womensspace | November 22, 2007, 5:09 am
  142. I mean, when will we have a National Day of Remembrance for our MILLIONS of raped/battered/tortured/dead sisters? And more every minute of every day? When?

    Posted by womensspace | November 22, 2007, 5:15 am
  143. Gayle:

    I discovered your blog too late. Never did get passed the lurker stage there.

    I click over every now and again hoping you’ve decided to return. Any chance you’ll reopen shop?

    Hi Gayle. Sorry, not for the foreseeable future. Worklife getting in the way, and when it’s not work, it’s protesting/activism.

    Posted by stormy | November 24, 2007, 6:54 pm
  144. Heart,

    I forgot to stipulate if it was a -white- boy

    Posted by Kiuku | November 27, 2007, 1:14 am
  145. I’m from India and in my country there are henious crimes to but they are due to lack of education and poverty stricken societies who are bounded by non-sense as beliefs etc.

    Come to think of it we still have the family bond that the western up bringing is missing, because as you invent new things and bring them to the hands of the consumer and the consumer is an young adult/teenager, he is bound to get creative with it.

    As for creativity, it comes from what he observes from a young age and things around him. So its high time that your families are interpreted properly and certain restrictions should be put forward to make them realise the value of life and its offerings. Till then it is going to get WORSE and teens are going to be the MENACE of the society everywhere in the West & Europe.

    Posted by Krish | March 6, 2008, 1:24 pm
  146. Reblogged this on Under the Fallen Leaves and commented:
    This is atrocious. I can’t even properly express how angry I am that they’re getting away with something like this…

    Posted by elaviel413 | January 12, 2013, 11:50 pm

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